From michael at ywow.org Sun May 9 09:51:40 2004 From: michael at ywow.org (Mike Jang) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 12:51:40 -0400 Subject: [cAos] Red Hat Desktop In-Reply-To: <20040325155937.GA428@runlevelzero.net> References: <20040324202058.GA29313@runlevelzero.net> <20040325155937.GA428@runlevelzero.net> Message-ID: <1084121500.3212.18.camel@Enterprise3> Folks, Is there any thought / discussion about a "rebuild" of the new Red Hat Desktop offering? The Red Hat "starter pack" price of $2500 (I think for a pack of 10 support subscriptions) seems high. Thanks, Mike From mhedemark at trueposition.com Mon May 10 06:52:33 2004 From: mhedemark at trueposition.com (Hedemark, Magnus) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:52:33 -0400 Subject: [cAos] Red Hat Desktop Message-ID: Not likely. It's not an Open Source distro. From lance at uklinux.net Mon May 10 07:26:44 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:26:44 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] Red Hat Desktop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, Hedemark, Magnus wrote: > Not likely. It's not an Open Source distro. Not only that it is basically a cut down Rhel 3 with 3rd party apps. So just use CentOS 3.1 and download the apps from the relevant providers. Lance > > >From their web site: > Integrated third party applications, including: > Adobe Acrobat Reader and plugin > Macromedia Flash plugin > Java (IBM and BEA) and plugin (IBM) > Citrix ICA Client > Real Player > > We can't redistribute that. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Jang [mailto:michael at ywow.org] > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 12:52 PM > To: caos at caosity.org > Subject: [cAos] Red Hat Desktop > > > Folks, > > Is there any thought / discussion about a "rebuild" of the new Red Hat > Desktop offering? The Red Hat "starter pack" price of $2500 (I think for > a pack of 10 support subscriptions) seems high. > > Thanks, > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl Mon May 10 07:32:14 2004 From: m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl (Maarten Stolte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:32:14 +0200 Subject: [cAos] Red Hat Desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409F926E.8090805@datadevil.demon.nl> Hi, Hedemark, Magnus wrote: >Not likely. It's not an Open Source distro. > >From their web site: >Integrated third party applications, including: >Adobe Acrobat Reader and plugin >Macromedia Flash plugin >Java (IBM and BEA) and plugin (IBM) >Citrix ICA Client >Real Player > >We can't redistribute that. > > is that so? I know we cannot without the agreement of the license holders, but wouldn't it be great if we could persuade them to give us permission? This goes for both the centos and the cAos projects. Anyone on the mailinglist dealt with this issues before, and able to advice, or maybe even working for one of these companies and wanting to help us out? Maarten blog: http://datadevil.papuaos.org/ From chrish at trilug.org Mon May 10 07:38:23 2004 From: chrish at trilug.org (Magnus Hedemark) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Red Hat Desktop In-Reply-To: <409F926E.8090805@datadevil.demon.nl> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2004, Maarten Stolte wrote: > is that so? > I know we cannot without the agreement of the license holders, but > wouldn't it be great if we could persuade them to give us permission? If you're asking me, the answer to your question is "no". Read: http://www.centos.org/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=50&op=page&SubMenu= Our Social Contract has a bold heading "cAos Will Remain 100% Open Source Software" and says on the subject: "We promise to keep the cAos Linux Distribution entirely redistributable open source software. As there are many definitions of free open source software, we include the guidelines we use to determine if software is "free" below. We will support our users who develop and run non-free software on cAos, but we will never make the system depend on an item of non-free software. " From m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl Mon May 10 08:27:39 2004 From: m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl (Maarten Stolte) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:27:39 +0200 Subject: [cAos] Red Hat Desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409F9F6B.5010203@datadevil.demon.nl> Magnus Hedemark wrote: >On Mon, 10 May 2004, Maarten Stolte wrote: > > > >>is that so? >>I know we cannot without the agreement of the license holders, but >>wouldn't it be great if we could persuade them to give us permission? >> >> > >If you're asking me, the answer to your question is "no". > >Read: >http://www.centos.org/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=50&op=page&SubMenu= > >Our Social Contract has a bold heading "cAos Will Remain 100% Open Source >Software" and says on the subject: > >"We promise to keep the cAos Linux Distribution entirely redistributable >open source software. As there are many definitions of free open source >software, we include the guidelines we use to determine if software is >"free" below. We will support our users who develop and run non-free >software on cAos, but we will never make the system depend on an item of >non-free software. " > > > depend.. will it depend on it if we deliver the tools along with the other parts of the distro? Redhat also has a rather pro opensource packaging doesn't it? Maarten From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Mon May 10 14:28:01 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: CentOS-WS In-Reply-To: <20040510160001.15230.42787.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040510212801.80559.qmail@web14713.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, I was also wondering about putting out a "desktop" version. On a desktop machine, I installed CentOS-3 and checked the "personal desktop" option (I think that was what it was called) -- on install, CentOS-3 seems to have exactly the same options that RedHat 9 had. So far, I have not found that any essential components were lacking in the CentOS install. It even has lots of screensavers and the "random" option. On the other hand, I assume that the RHEL WS ("workstation") distro is more than just labeling/packaging. So here is the idea: use RedHat's list for the contents of RHEL WS as a checklist of all the open source packages that should be added to CentOS-3 as a desktop version of CentOS. Then label that "CentOS-WS". CentOS-WS -- you saw it first here! Rick From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Mon May 10 16:16:27 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] more: CentOS-DT Message-ID: <20040510231627.4567.qmail@web14709.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, I see now that RHEL Desktop is the "new product". It also seems to be more about what is left out compared to RHEL AS and ES, rather than what is added. Maybe it is just labeling and packaging. I will look at this more carefully, but I gotta go now. I'll be back. Anyway, you saw it first here: CentOS-DT. Rick --- Rick Graves wrote: > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:28:01 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rick Graves > Subject: Re: CentOS-WS > To: caos at caosity.org > > Hey, > > I was also wondering about putting out a "desktop" > version. > > On a desktop machine, I installed CentOS-3 and > checked > the "personal desktop" option (I think that was what > it was called) -- on install, CentOS-3 seems to have > exactly the same options that RedHat 9 had. > > So far, I have not found that any essential > components > were lacking in the CentOS install. It even has > lots > of screensavers and the "random" option. > > On the other hand, I assume that the RHEL WS > ("workstation") distro is more than just > labeling/packaging. > > So here is the idea: use RedHat's list for the > contents of RHEL WS as a checklist of all the open > source packages that should be added to CentOS-3 as > a > desktop version of CentOS. Then label that > "CentOS-WS". > > CentOS-WS -- you saw it first here! > > Rick > > > From herrold at owlriver.com Tue May 11 12:52:03 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Roadmap to caos-1.1 Message-ID: The datadevil and I were talking, and he was wondering about a roadmap of the path to caos-1.1 -- I do not have a firm ship date in mind (more on this in a bit), and would like some enhancements which may come in cinch in place (based on some discussions with Greg). With those caveats: 1. Get all security updates in place (we have some lags) - infrastructure need -- php/mysql codeing volunteer needed -- I have a list on hand, but need to track it better and have a design, but not enough time 2. Get current as possible all packages in current buildchain in place -- the Distrowatch checklist is as good as any - infrastructure need -- datadevil is assisting 3. Kill all easy open caos-1 bugs in the Bugzilla - just a matter of rakeing through the bugzilla 4. (out of caos-1.1 path, but a blocker) rework the builder to support multiple caos_products, and to keen also a per-user adoption archive - in process and testing 5. At this point, test the application layer -- gnome 2.6 seemed to be wanted; kde to current stable as well -this and other application layer transitioning and integration will largely rest in the package adopter/integrators' hands I am hopeful to get to a release candidate by the end of June, and a release, perhaps by OLS the third week of July. QA is a real stick point -- it is only getting done by developers (and end users) 'eating our own dogfood' and filing positive and negative ratings, and Bugzilla's of problems (at least with reproducers, hopefully with fixes) I am in the midst of a complete rebuild of all packages to 'qualify my builder approach against Greg's so that a cutover can take please to free Greg's builder for caos-2 -- I hope to have that in place by the weekend. Extra Credit matters: ------------------------------ EC-1. Package documentation infrastructure-- .lsm like backend database for use in unifying updates, security, and general web presentation of documentation EC-2. Distributed testing autobuilder tools EC-3. (undisclosed item in negotiation process) EC-4. Ground up .spec file review EC-5. Live CD EC-6. Thin-Client instance builder - partially in process with David Parsley's work on Tao-TC That is my plan and my hopes, from the top of my head -- do you see any obvious holes? -- Russ Herrold From chrish at trilug.org Tue May 11 13:01:29 2004 From: chrish at trilug.org (Magnus Hedemark) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Roadmap to caos-1.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, R P Herrold wrote: > QA is a real stick point -- it is only getting done by > developers (and end users) 'eating our own dogfood' and filing > positive and negative ratings, and Bugzilla's of problems (at > least with reproducers, hopefully with fixes) WRT "positive and negative ratings", are you referring just to informal unstructured emails / IRC msgs, or are you tracking actual metrics somewhere? --Magnus From jim at rossberry.com Tue May 11 13:27:59 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] OT: Serial install joke In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Totally off subject. I was installing RH3 through a serial console and saw this message scroll by.. Red Hat install init version 9.1 using a serial console remember, cereal is an important part of a nutritionally balanced breakfast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim at rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com From lance at uklinux.net Tue May 11 14:34:30 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:34:30 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] Roadmap to caos-1.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, R P Herrold wrote: > That is my plan and my hopes, from the top of my head -- do > you see any obvious holes? EC-3 ??? Seriously I would like to see a proper set of isos, but failing yum having th ability to read multiple cd's - a dvd of caos should be produced. Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From greg at runlevelzero.net Wed May 12 19:38:02 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:38:02 -0700 Subject: [cAos] caos2 development... Message-ID: <20040513023802.GA12393@runlevelzero.net> As of recent, Russ Herrold has taken over development of caos1 so that some of other code developers can focus on caos2. There are several people right now developing the new caos2 self-hosting buildroot. The caos2 buildroot is in development now, and is currently a small self-hosting chroot. Developers can retrieve it from temple.caosity.org::buildroot-2, but beware! It is in major flux at the moment due to lots of development! Joseph Tate and I are working on upgrading it to gcc-3.4, and Michael Jennings is currently upgrading it to rpm-4.3. Also, it will utilize the linux-2.6 kernel but that is not part of the buildroot. I have a couple of questions for you folks... What architectures should be supported? I was thinking of dropping 386, and migrating the lowest default arch to 586, and then also including 686, athlon, x86_64 and possibly Itanium (one day). Are there any major opinions here? Should the Linuxthreads addon to glibc be included, or should caos2 require only NPTL kernels to use (linux-2.6)? -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From floeff at arcor.de Thu May 13 03:38:28 2004 From: floeff at arcor.de (Florian Effenberger) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:38:28 +0200 Subject: [cAos] How long do patches take until they are available? Message-ID: <001d01c438d6$774a6ea0$0500a8c0@effenberger> Hi there, how long do patches take in average until they are available? How many days does it take until a Red Hat patch RPM is adapted to CentOS? Thanks! Florian From lance at uklinux.net Thu May 13 03:52:39 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:52:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] How long do patches take until they are available? In-Reply-To: <001d01c438d6$774a6ea0$0500a8c0@effenberger> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Florian Effenberger wrote: > Hi there, > > how long do patches take in average until they are available? How many days > does it take until a Red Hat patch RPM is adapted to CentOS? It depends onthe patch - security updates will usually be available within a few hours - unless they take a long time to build and test , eg kernel, openoffice - when they may take up to 24 or sometimes more. The recently announced update 2 release patches which are bugfix/enhancements are being built in to centos 3.2 and will be released for beta testing in hopefully about a week. Regards Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From floeff at arcor.de Thu May 13 03:58:45 2004 From: floeff at arcor.de (Florian Effenberger) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:58:45 +0200 Subject: [cAos] How long do patches take until they are available? References: Message-ID: <000501c438d9$4a02e960$0500a8c0@effenberger> Hi Lance, thanks for the fast answer! Florian From jrw at nplus1.net Thu May 13 07:15:08 2004 From: jrw at nplus1.net (Jacob Robert Wilkins) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:15:08 -0400 Subject: [cAos] How long do patches take until they are available? In-Reply-To: <001d01c438d6$774a6ea0$0500a8c0@effenberger> References: <001d01c438d6$774a6ea0$0500a8c0@effenberger> Message-ID: <20040513141508.GC1600@nplus1.net> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 12:38:28PM +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote: > Hi there, > > how long do patches take in average until they are available? How many days > does it take until a Red Hat patch RPM is adapted to CentOS? You should subscribe to the CentOS list. Lance released the ipsec-tools and initscripts packages last night. I'm not sure when RH made those packages available, but I think we are usually within 24hrs for security related stuff. Here is a link to the CentOS list info... http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos jrw From jp at jpsdomain.org Thu May 13 10:20:04 2004 From: jp at jpsdomain.org (JP Vossen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] caos2 development... In-Reply-To: <20040513160001.16568.19285.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:38:02 -0700 > From: Greg Kurtzer > Subject: [cAos] caos2 development... > I have a couple of questions for you folks... > > What architectures should be supported? I was thinking of dropping 386, > and migrating the lowest default arch to 586, and then also including > 686, athlon, x86_64 and possibly Itanium (one day). Are there any major > opinions here? I hate to say this, but I still run a couple of 486s (they aren't broke, why fix them?) FWIW. Otherwise sounds good. Later, JP ------------------------------|:::======|-------------------------------- JP Vossen, CISSP |:::======| jp{at}jpsdomain{dot}org My Account, My Opinions |=========| http://www.jpsdomain.org/ ------------------------------|=========|-------------------------------- You used to have to reboot the Windows 9.x series every couple of days because it would crash. Now you have to reboot Windows 200x or XP every month on 'Patch Tuesday.' How is that better or more stable? From herrold at owlriver.com Thu May 13 11:27:26 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] Roadmap to caos-1.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, Magnus Hedemark wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2004, R P Herrold wrote: > > > QA is a real stick point -- it is only getting done by > > developers (and end users) 'eating our own dogfood' and filing > > positive and negative ratings, and Bugzilla's of problems (at > > least with reproducers, hopefully with fixes) > > WRT "positive and negative ratings", are you referring just to informal > unstructured emails / IRC msgs, or are you tracking actual metrics > somewhere? Actual attributable and remembered metrics and reports. QA commentary appears: 1) https://temple.caosity.org/pkg_qa.php {this is the formal and fast way to 'sign on' that you have used a package, and either find it acceptible of not. Much of caos-1 is not in certified, because unless there is a security fix, or two core maintainers have concurred that it needs to be out on Certified, it will stay in Crazy forever without positive ratings.} 2) https://bugzilla.caosity.org/ {the bugzilla is of course the 'institutional memory' of a distributed development project. Email reports will be lost in a pipermail archive; irc content is ephemeral; phone calls are forgotten. but Bugzilla remembers, and permits others following after the filer to research and solve issues forever. Please feed the bugzilla so it may feed you.} 3) released tools, and private tools. {*nix is a toolbuilder culture. If a task has to be repeated more than a few times, it tends to get scripted, and in an FOSS -- Free and Open Source Software culture -- released for others. Much of me toolset, and documentation are released so that others can follow along, repeast successes, report failures, and so forth. Write up what you have done and let Google and others find and use it.} -- Some of the caos tools I have written are subject to nda promises I may have given others; others are so 'loady' that they will not be released generally; others are so nasty and undocumented that I am not ready to release them yet. All that said, on my lead desktop I am running Crazy, with the exception of Mozilla and the latest linux kernel packaging, at the moment perfectly happily [a month ago I was less happy]. In the handoff of builder responsibility from Greg for caos-1, I want to 'design out' some of the rough spots we have hit and build in some new capabilities. -- Russ herrold From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Thu May 13 14:16:34 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] RHEL Desktop third party applications Message-ID: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, RHEL Desktop ("DT") appears to be plain old RHEL positioned as an easy, cookie cutter desktop install for big organizations. Bear in mind that RedHat, as a business, is tuned into the needs of the deep pocket customers and prospects. They added ("integrated") some third party applications into the desktop product, namely: Adobe Acrobat Reader and plugin Macromedia Flash plugin Java (IBM and BEA) and plugin (IBM) Citrix ICA Client Real Player Open source Acrobat readers are included in plain old RHEL and most other distributions, but the other applications/functions are not included. For all of the above, free downloads are available for Linux systems. RedHat obviously feels that integrating these applications into its DT package will enhance sales. Below, there is more info on each of the above third party applications. If cAos wants to put out a CentOS-DT product and go head-to-head with RedHat, it would probably be possible to get permission (if necessary) to "integrate" packages filling each of the above functions. If (and only if) cAos wants to put out such a DT product, I could make the inquiries. Information on the third party applications is below. Adobe Acrobat Reader and plugin The CentOS-3 "personal desktop" install includes acrobat readers. Adobe itself also puts out a Linux version. http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=10&platform=unix Macromedia Flash plugin Open source Linux versions free download http://macromedia.mplug.org/ Java (IBM and BEA) and plugin (IBM) n/a Java is a free download http://java.sun.com/linux/ You can test whether you have Java on your PC, go to http://www.time.gov/ Pick a time zone. Do the seconds digits update each second? If yes, you have Java. Will the IBM Java plugin work with Mozilla? We've recently (2001) upgraded our 1.3.0 plugin for Windows, Linux, and OS/2 to ensure compatibility with Mozilla and Netscape 6 (among other things). Download the latest 1.3.0 Java-compatible SDKs from the IBM developer kit page (see Resources) to ensure that you have the new plugin. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-jtc/ Real Player available for Linux user supported forum http://forms.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html Citrix ICA Client when I was at the Citrix site, the web page for ICA was blank Citrix Systems ? About ICA? But Google has a good page in their cache do this search "ICA site:www.citrix.com" (without quotes) look for Citrix Systems ? About ICA? if the Citrix page is blank for you too, come back to Google and click on cached Understanding Citrix ICA Q: What is Citrix ICA? A: Citrix ICA stands for Citrix? Independent Computing Architecture. It is the ?thin? protocol that enables Citrix to separate screen updates and user input processing from the rest of the application?s logic. When using a Citrix ICA Client, all application logic executes on the server and only screen updates, mouse movements and keystrokes are transmitted via the Citrix ICA session. Q: What are Citrix ICA clients? A: A Citrix ICA client is the software component that executes on the client device. It allows the user to establish a Citrix ICA session with a Citrix MetaFrameTM server. This session enables the user to access server-based applications that appear to run locally on the client machine but execute on the server. About MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX Q: What is Citrix? MetaFrame? Presentation Server for UNIX?? A: Citrix MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX is part of the Citrix MetaFrame Access Suite and allows organizations to centrally manage heterogeneous applications and deliver their functionality as a service to workers, wherever they may be. MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX supports IBM? AIX?, Sun? Solaris? and HP-UX? platforms, and supports virtually any custom or commercially packaged UNIX applications. MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX provides an exceptional foundation to build highly scalable, flexible, secure, manageable access solutions that reduce computing costs and increase the utility of any information system. MetaFrame Presentation Server 1.2 for UNIX is the latest feature update to the MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX product. This update is part of Citrix?s commitment to continue delivering access infrastructure software with increased value to our customers. MetaFrame Presentation Server 1.2 for UNIX contains new features that enhance the security of your existing MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX deployment and provides easy, secure access to UNIX and Java? applications via the Web. Home > Products Below you?ll find access to everything you need to know to make your organization an on-demand enterprise. Find out how to give users secure, easy, instant access to the information they need. Click here to demo Citrix products today. Citrix MetaFrame Access Suite The Citrix? MetaFrame? Access Suite is the easiest way for organizations to provide a secure, single point of access to enterprise applications and information on demand. Citrix MetaFrame Presentation Server For Windows 2000 and 2003 Servers?the easiest way to manage enterprise applications from a central location and access them from anywhere. Citrix MetaFrame Presentation Server for UNIX The easiest way to access UNIX applications securely and remotely from any device. end From chrish at trilug.org Thu May 13 14:21:25 2004 From: chrish at trilug.org (Magnus Hedemark) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] RHEL Desktop third party applications In-Reply-To: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Rick Graves wrote: > If cAos wants to put out a CentOS-DT product and go > head-to-head with RedHat, it would probably be > possible to get permission (if necessary) to > "integrate" packages filling each of the above > functions. I strongly oppose this on the grounds that this concept is at odds with our social contract, as mentioned previously. --Magnus From mej at caosity.org Thu May 13 14:22:15 2004 From: mej at caosity.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:22:15 -0400 Subject: [cAos] RHEL Desktop third party applications In-Reply-To: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040513212215.GA17547@kainx.org> On Thursday, 13 May 2004, at 14:16:34 (-0700), Rick Graves wrote: > Adobe Acrobat Reader and plugin > The CentOS-3 "personal desktop" install includes > acrobat readers. Adobe itself also puts out a Linux > version. > http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=10&platform=unix Not redistributable. > Macromedia Flash plugin > Open source Linux versions free download > http://macromedia.mplug.org/ Also not redistributable. I even e-mailed them to ask permission. See previous e-mail to caos list. > Java (IBM and BEA) and plugin (IBM) n/a > Java is a free download > http://java.sun.com/linux/ This may have become redistributable recently, I'm not sure. But we couldn't redistribute it last time I checked. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "A woman broke up with me and sent me pictures of her and her new boyfriend in bed together. Solution? I sent them to her dad." -- Christopher Case From royk at pixiehost.com Thu May 13 14:28:23 2004 From: royk at pixiehost.com (Roy Kartadinata) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:28:23 -0700 Subject: [cAos] RHEL Desktop third party applications In-Reply-To: <20040513212215.GA17547@kainx.org> References: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> <20040513212215.GA17547@kainx.org> Message-ID: <40A3E877.9020604@pixiehost.com> You might want to add openoffice as well which I'm sure RedHat and any other Desktop Linux have that as part as their distribution. Oh .. forgot .. Hi everybody .. I'm new :) +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Roy Kartadinata Pixie Internet Services "This is Linux country. If you listen carefully, you can hear Windows reboot..." +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Michael Jennings wrote: > On Thursday, 13 May 2004, at 14:16:34 (-0700), > Rick Graves wrote: > > >>Adobe Acrobat Reader and plugin >>The CentOS-3 "personal desktop" install includes >>acrobat readers. Adobe itself also puts out a Linux >>version. >>http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=10&platform=unix > > > Not redistributable. > > >>Macromedia Flash plugin >>Open source Linux versions free download >>http://macromedia.mplug.org/ > > > Also not redistributable. I even e-mailed them to ask permission. > See previous e-mail to caos list. > > >>Java (IBM and BEA) and plugin (IBM) n/a >>Java is a free download >>http://java.sun.com/linux/ > > > This may have become redistributable recently, I'm not sure. But we > couldn't redistribute it last time I checked. > > Michael > From jrw at nplus1.net Thu May 13 14:32:48 2004 From: jrw at nplus1.net (Jacob Robert Wilkins) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:32:48 -0400 Subject: [cAos] RHEL Desktop third party applications In-Reply-To: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040513213248.GA11047@nplus1.net> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:16:34PM -0700, Rick Graves wrote: > If cAos wants to put out a CentOS-DT product and go > head-to-head with RedHat, it would probably be > possible to get permission (if necessary) to > "integrate" packages filling each of the above > functions. Why would we want to "go head-to-head" with redhat? Its certinaly not within the goals of the cAos project. We are trying to make a good distro that can be used for whatever. Red Hat is trying to sell service and support, to compete with RH, to go "head-to-head" as you put it, doesn't even make sense. jrw From alan at aspuru.com Thu May 13 15:06:48 2004 From: alan at aspuru.com (Alan Aspuru-Guzik) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:06:48 -0700 Subject: [cAos] RHEL Desktop third party applications In-Reply-To: <20040513212215.GA17547@kainx.org> References: <20040513211634.27963.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> <20040513212215.GA17547@kainx.org> Message-ID: <1084485865.1533.11.camel@purua> Dear all, Regarding these (or other third-party apps) Ok, what about creating a small script that downloads and installs all these automagically? It could be an RPM whose install script does it all for you. Something like ibm-java-wrapper-caos*.rpm, etc. Therefore, during the installation, one could be prompted if one wants to install these third party things, and these RPMs would go and download and install things for you. Alan On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:22, Michael Jennings wrote: > On Thursday, 13 May 2004, at 14:16:34 (-0700), > Rick Graves wrote: > > > Adobe Acrobat Reader and plugin > > The CentOS-3 "personal desktop" install includes > > acrobat readers. Adobe itself also puts out a Linux > > version. > > http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=10&platform=unix > > Not redistributable. > > > Macromedia Flash plugin > > Open source Linux versions free download > > http://macromedia.mplug.org/ > > Also not redistributable. I even e-mailed them to ask permission. > See previous e-mail to caos list. > > > Java (IBM and BEA) and plugin (IBM) n/a > > Java is a free download > > http://java.sun.com/linux/ > > This may have become redistributable recently, I'm not sure. But we > couldn't redistribute it last time I checked. > > Michael -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - [ cut here ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Al?n Aspuru-Guzik [http://alan.aspuru.com] From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Sun May 16 06:57:51 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] supporting architectures Message-ID: <20040516135751.32247.qmail@web14701.mail.yahoo.com> Greg, You wrote, > What architectures should be supported? I was thinking of dropping 386, and migrating the lowest default arch to 586, and then also including 686, athlon, x86_64 and possibly Itanium (one day). Are there any major opinions here? If supporting the 386 makes supporting other architectures (such as athlon, x86_64 and Itanium) more difficult, I suggest you drop 386 and 486. 386 = Intel 80386 processor 486 = Intel 80486 processor 586 = Intel 80586 processor (Pentium/Pentium Pro) 686 = Intel 80686 processor (Pentium II/III/IV) http://www.kisser.net.au/tontodan/Glossary.html http://www.mdgx.com/glossary.htm JP Vossen and others may still be using 486's (I have one also), but Debian is a viable option for obsolete hardware. Rick From jp at jpsdomain.org Sun May 16 11:48:03 2004 From: jp at jpsdomain.org (JP Vossen) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] supporting architectures In-Reply-To: <20040516160001.20045.79961.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: > Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rick Graves > To: caos at caosity.org > Subject: [cAos] supporting architectures > > JP Vossen and others may still be using 486's (I have > one also), but Debian is a viable option for obsolete > hardware. Debian is only an option if you want to support more than 1 distro, which I don't, which is why I am using cAos. This is an issue for me, but it's not a giant, deal-breaking one. But hey, Greg asked... :-) Later, JP ------------------------------|:::======|-------------------------------- JP Vossen, CISSP |:::======| jp{at}jpsdomain{dot}org My Account, My Opinions |=========| http://www.jpsdomain.org/ ------------------------------|=========|-------------------------------- You used to have to reboot the Windows 9.x series every couple of days because it would crash. Now you have to reboot Windows 200x or XP every month on 'Patch Tuesday.' How is that better or more stable? From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Mon May 17 14:04:56 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: supporting obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: <20040517160000.29766.81545.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040517210456.27816.qmail@web14702.mail.yahoo.com> Hey JP, You wrote, > Debian is only an option if you want to support more > than 1 distro, which > I don't, which is why I am using cAos. This is an > issue for me, but it's > not a giant, deal-breaking one. But hey, Greg > asked... :-) Fair enough. But consider: 1) the HUGE effort that goes into putting out a distribution, and 2) genuine, working Pentium I's can be had for next to nothing. On point 2, I am not kidding. On Saturday, I purchased a working Pentium I (133 MHz) from my friendly neighborhood junk dealer for less than $3.00. (It included a 1.6 gig drive and a serial mouse but no memory, no floppy drive, and no CD drive. And it was just the box, no keyboard and no monitor.) In these parts, people are regularly junking perfectly workable Pentium I's. (On the other hand, 486's are rare -- I assume most were junked shortly after Win 95 took over.) The junk dealer did not know whether it was working (he is a junk dealer, not a used PC dealer), but in my experience, almost all junked Pentium I motherboards and CPU's are still working. So I was not taking such a big risk. In this PC, the motherboard, CPU, and hard drive were still working. I also admit that I am lucky in that my walking route to work takes me right past my friendly neighborhood junk dealer each day, and you might not be so lucky in this way. You might have to go to your local used computer store and pay more than $3.00 -- say $10. (Or splurge and get a Pentium II box for $50.) So please consider the HUGE effort that goes into putting out a distribution. If making Pentium I's the minimum supported hardware will facilitate supporting other platforms, upgrading your hardware is a sensible trade off. And if you INSIST on keeping your 486 in service, there will still be Debian. Rick From laytonjb at charter.net Mon May 17 16:13:47 2004 From: laytonjb at charter.net (Jeffrey B. Layton) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:13:47 -0400 Subject: [cAos] OT: yum questions Message-ID: <40A9472B.4000902@charter.net> Hello, I hate to bother everyone, but this question is detailed enough that I couldn't jump on IRC to ask it. I'm working on a subset of cAos for a specialized purpose. The whole distro has to fit onto 1 CD. I'm gong to use cinch as the installed with the cinch iso. I'm going to hack up cinch to use yum to install the packages I want from the CD after the core (or is it base?) is installed. I'm hoping to use yum groups and make yum do the heavy lifting. So, I started looking through the yumgroups.xml list on the ftp sites. I started with something simple like 'X'. Here is the subset of X from yumgroups.xml: x true x XFree86 XFree86-100dpi-fonts XFree86-75dpi-fonts XFree86-Mesa-libGLU XFree86-tools XFree86-xdm XFree86-xf86cfg Xconfigurator urw-fonts It looks pretty straightforward. However, I started to put together a list of the rpms and this is where I got confused. In the above list, are these the names of the rpms themselves? (for example, XFree86.xxxx.rpm). If so, how does yum know what xxxx is? Also, are there any dependencies in the list of packages above? If so, when I plan my rpm list for the CD, do I need to figure out the dependencies myself? Am I making some sense? :) TIA! Jeff From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Mon May 17 16:52:19 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] one line on obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: <20040517160000.29766.81545.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040517235219.1930.qmail@web14715.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, Hardware that can be cheaply upgraded should not hold back the whole distribution. BTW, I understood Greg's original request on this to IMPLY that abandoning support for 386 processors would make it easier to add support for other architectures. True of false? OK, more than one line. R From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Mon May 17 16:53:30 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] more on supporting obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: <20040517160000.29766.81545.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040517235331.43598.qmail@web14710.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, Hardware that can be cheaply upgraded should not hold back the whole distribution. BTW, I understood Greg's original request on this to IMPLY that abandoning support for 386 processors would make it easier to add support for other architectures. True of false? R From mej at caosity.org Mon May 17 18:34:40 2004 From: mej at caosity.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:34:40 -0400 Subject: [cAos] more on supporting obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: <20040517235331.43598.qmail@web14710.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040517160000.29766.81545.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> <20040517235331.43598.qmail@web14710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040518013440.GA4792@kainx.org> On Monday, 17 May 2004, at 16:53:30 (-0700), Rick Graves wrote: > BTW, I understood Greg's original request on this to IMPLY that > abandoning support for 386 processors would make it easier to add > support for other architectures. True of false? Not per se. Not supporting i486 means we can build software using the Pentium instruction set. My reasoning is that anyone who uses a machine older than a Pentium possesses sufficient clue to bootstrap that architecture on his/her own, and the distro as a whole should not be penalized on their behalf. And I think JP understands this, based on his comments previously. Our job is not to please all the people all the time. It's to please most of the people most of the time and provide the tools to allow those we can't always please to please themselves. That's why the core OS is what it is. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "I guess the time is right for us to say we'll take our time and live our lives together day by day. We'll make a wish and send it on a prayer. We know our dreams will all come true with love that we can share." -- Firehouse, "Love of a Lifetime" From greg at runlevelzero.net Mon May 17 22:49:00 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:49:00 -0700 Subject: [cAos] OT: yum questions In-Reply-To: <40A9472B.4000902@charter.net> References: <40A9472B.4000902@charter.net> Message-ID: <20040518054900.GB26224@runlevelzero.net> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 07:13:47PM -0400, Jeffrey B. Layton told me: > It looks pretty straightforward. However, I started to > put together a list of the rpms and this is where I got > confused. In the above list, are these the names of the > rpms themselves? (for example, XFree86.xxxx.rpm). Use only the names of the rpms themselves. Not the entire version. YUM will figure out which versions should be used automatically. > If so, how does yum know what xxxx is? Also, are there > any dependencies in the list of packages above? If so, > when I plan my rpm list for the CD, do I need to figure out > the dependencies myself? Am I making some sense? :) YUM always assumes the newest version with the given name. It ignores older packages. YUM will also figure out the dependencies for all of the listed packages for you, but as you noted you will have to build a self contained (all deps resolved) repository for all packages that you wish to install on the iso itself. You can use tools like yum-arch with the -d option to show any dependency issues in the repo itself, or you can make a chroot for this purpose: # mkdir -p /tmp/testroot/etc/ # cp /etc/yum.conf /tmp/testroot/etc # vi /tmp/testroot/etc/yum.conf - Add the repository that you are testing and remove all others # yum --installroot /tmp/testroot groupinstall [group list...] After it installs your chroot, you will have all of the needed rpms in /tmp/testroot/var/cache/yum/*/packages/. I realize that this is not an elegant way of handling this, but right now YUM will not generate the package list any easier (well, at least any way easier that I know of). Greg -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From Tom.DeBlende at dhl.com Tue May 18 00:53:30 2004 From: Tom.DeBlende at dhl.com (Tom DE BLENDE (GCC)) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:53:30 +0200 Subject: [cAos] Re: supporting obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: <20040517210456.27816.qmail@web14702.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040517210456.27816.qmail@web14702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A9C0FA.4070606@dhl.com> >2) genuine, working Pentium I's can be had for next to >nothing. > Agreed. And you don't even have to live next doors to a junk dealer (you are WALKING to work?)... http://computers.listings.ebay.com/366MHz-Less_Intel-Pentium-486-Earlier_W0QQfromZR4QQsacategoryZ51096QQsbrsrtZlQQsocmdZListingItemListQQsosortpropertyZ1 From chrish at trilug.org Tue May 18 02:47:56 2004 From: chrish at trilug.org (Magnus Hedemark) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] more on supporting obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: <20040518013440.GA4792@kainx.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Michael Jennings wrote: > Not per se. Not supporting i486 means we can build software using the > Pentium instruction set. My reasoning is that anyone who uses a > machine older than a Pentium possesses sufficient clue to bootstrap > that architecture on his/her own, and the distro as a whole should not > be penalized on their behalf. And I think JP understands this, based > on his comments previously. If we ditch i486 then we turn our backs on tinkerers who use the popular i486 based Soekris boards who are likely to just use another distro instead of bootstrapping. From mej at caosity.org Tue May 18 10:57:07 2004 From: mej at caosity.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:57:07 -0400 Subject: [cAos] more on supporting obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: References: <20040518013440.GA4792@kainx.org> Message-ID: <20040518175707.GU8559@kainx.org> On Tuesday, 18 May 2004, at 05:47:56 (-0400), Magnus Hedemark wrote: > If we ditch i486 then we turn our backs on tinkerers who use the > popular i486 based Soekris boards who are likely to just use another > distro instead of bootstrapping. I have no problem with that. We cannot be all things to all people; we have to draw the line somewhere, and I think we've chosen a very reasonable spot. As long as the tools are provided to easily rebuild packages for different CPU types, and if enough people want it, it will happen. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "I will be there for you, with these five words I swear to you. When you breathe, I want to be the air for you. I'll be there for you. I'd live and I'd die for you, steal the sun from the sky for you. Words can't say what a love can do. I'll be there for you." -- Bon Jovi From jp at jpsdomain.org Tue May 18 11:25:28 2004 From: jp at jpsdomain.org (JP Vossen) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Obsolete hardware Message-ID: Ouch. Certainly seem to have touched a nerve here. :-) I'm not trying to penalize or hold back the distro in any way, and as noted by many there are other options remaining (upgrade, use cAos-1, RH 7.3, Debian, etc.). But I've found it much better to ask the question and get the empirical results rather than make wild-assed guesses in a vacuum in a back room (which is how management of some of the consulting firms I used to work for seemed to like to operate, but I digress :). *I* use 486s. I wanted to see who else did and what people's thoughts are. If there are significant benefits to be had by abandoning 386/486--and there seem to be in terms of optimized code for the majority of relevant machines, and maybe build and test time, but not necessarily in terms of raw effort--they by all means the distro should "please most of the people most of the time" as Michael put it. It seems like that vast majority of responses were in favor of dropping 386/486 with only 1 (2 if you count me) suggesting that they *might* be useful to keep. Any more thoughts? Later, JP ------------------------------|:::======|-------------------------------- JP Vossen, CISSP |:::======| jp{at}jpsdomain{dot}org My Account, My Opinions |=========| http://www.jpsdomain.org/ ------------------------------|=========|-------------------------------- You used to have to reboot the Windows 9.x series every couple of days because it would crash. Now you have to reboot Windows 200x or XP every month on 'Patch Tuesday.' How is that better or more stable? From royk at pixiehost.com Tue May 18 11:30:20 2004 From: royk at pixiehost.com (Roy Kartadinata) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:30:20 -0700 Subject: [cAos] Obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40AA563C.8070508@pixiehost.com> I don't use 486s but I know some people that are using 486 for testing purposes. I say keep 386/486 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Roy Kartadinata Pixie Internet Services "This is Linux country. If you listen carefully, you can hear Windows reboot..." +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ JP Vossen wrote: > Ouch. Certainly seem to have touched a nerve here. :-) > > I'm not trying to penalize or hold back the distro in any way, and as > noted by many there are other options remaining (upgrade, use cAos-1, RH > 7.3, Debian, etc.). But I've found it much better to ask the question and > get the empirical results rather than make wild-assed guesses in a vacuum > in a back room (which is how management of some of the consulting firms I > used to work for seemed to like to operate, but I digress :). > > *I* use 486s. I wanted to see who else did and what people's thoughts > are. If there are significant benefits to be had by abandoning > 386/486--and there seem to be in terms of optimized code for the majority > of relevant machines, and maybe build and test time, but not necessarily > in terms of raw effort--they by all means the distro should "please most > of the people most of the time" as Michael put it. > > It seems like that vast majority of responses were in favor of dropping > 386/486 with only 1 (2 if you count me) suggesting that they *might* be > useful to keep. > > > Any more thoughts? > > > Later, > JP > ------------------------------|:::======|-------------------------------- > JP Vossen, CISSP |:::======| jp{at}jpsdomain{dot}org > My Account, My Opinions |=========| http://www.jpsdomain.org/ > ------------------------------|=========|-------------------------------- > You used to have to reboot the Windows 9.x series every couple of days > because it would crash. Now you have to reboot Windows 200x or XP every > month on 'Patch Tuesday.' How is that better or more stable? > > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos From tmattox at engr.uky.edu Tue May 18 12:49:57 2004 From: tmattox at engr.uky.edu (Timothy I Mattox) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: <40AA563C.8070508@pixiehost.com> Message-ID: Hello, Don't lump the 386 and 486 together... they might have had similar performance in their day, but they were very different in ways that the OS (linux kernel) cares about. For example, there was a bug discussed on the cAos IRC awhile back due to our attempt at supporting i386... see: http://www.caosity.org/pretty/?day=caos-20040416&mon=april-2004 and related kernel bug: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2391 It was a bug in recent kernel sources and the ACPI subsystem that assumed the chmpxchg atomic instruction was available. That instruction didn't exist on the 386, but it does on subsequent hardware, the 486 included. So dropping support for 386 will help avoid such things. Also, another difference between a 386 and a 486 is the built in floating point unit (if you exclude the 486sx models if I remmember right). By assuming all CPUs will have an FPU, we can compile the kernel without FPU emulation support, making it smaller. So, my point is that don't lump 386 & 486 together. If there is a real use in keeping support for things older than a 586, then at least consider only including the 486... not the 386. I don't care about keeping support for the 486 myself. I'm already using discarded 586 boxes as dedicated standalone firewalls these days. I personally vote for cAos-2 upporting 586 and up, and to set the compiler optimization flags for gcc to include -mcpu=i586 and depending on if we support 486, also do -march=i486 or -march=i586. Check out man gcc3 on your cAos-1 box for what those do... -- Tim Mattox - tmattox at engr.uky.edu - http://homepage.mac.com/tmattox/ http://aggregate.org/KAOS/ - http://advogato.org/person/tmattox/ From mej at caosity.org Tue May 18 13:08:09 2004 From: mej at caosity.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:08:09 -0400 Subject: [cAos] Obsolete hardware In-Reply-To: References: <40AA563C.8070508@pixiehost.com> Message-ID: <20040518200809.GY8559@kainx.org> On Tuesday, 18 May 2004, at 15:49:57 (-0400), Timothy I Mattox wrote: > I personally vote for cAos-2 upporting 586 and up, and to set the > compiler optimization flags for gcc to include -mcpu=i586 and > depending on if we support 486, also do -march=i486 or -march=i586. > Check out man gcc3 on your cAos-1 box for what those do... Just to be clear, my current builds use -march=pentium. We're discussing whether or not that gets changed to -march=i486. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "To touch the rose unfearful is to meet the thorn and pierce the heart's emotion and feel the emptiness no more." -- Jars of Clay, "No One Loves Me Like You" From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Tue May 18 14:12:50 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] cheap hardware In-Reply-To: <20040518160001.7788.69567.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040518211250.25866.qmail@web14715.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, Thanks to Tom De Blende for pointing me to ebay. There are plenty of Pentium II boxes on offer with starting bids under $20, and even at that price, many have no bidders. (For that price, you do not get a monitor -- a working monitor will cost you more.) Here is an example, a Dell Optiplex GX1 Pentium II 350 MHz with 64 megs: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51097&item=4131223401&rd=1 If you take a look, by then the auction may be over, and someone may have put in a bid. But at this point, no one has bid at $17.99. Here are the categories if you want to find more, Home > All Categories > Computers & Networking > Desktop PCs > 366MHz & Less http://computers.listings.ebay.com/Desktop-PCs_366MHz-Less_W0QQfromZR4QQsacategoryZ51095QQsbrsrtZlQQsocmdZListingItemListQQsosortpropertyZ1 Home > All Categories > Computers & Networking > Desktop PCs > 366MHz & Less > Intel Pentium II, Pentium Pro http://computers.listings.ebay.com/366MHz-Less_Intel-Pentium-II-Pentium-Pro_W0QQfromZR4QQsacategoryZ51097QQsbrsrtZlQQsocmdZListingItemListQQsosortpropertyZ1 I have noticed a glut of Pentium II's on the used computer market here -- they are stacked up almost to the ceiling in the used computer store. I assumed big companies were upgrading to Win XP and dumping the old hardware. Most Pentium II's cannot handle Win XP, so loads of Win-XP-incapable PC's are on the market, and there is no big demand, as they cannot handle Win-XP. Their loss is our gain. So this discussion is not about money, and for anyone for whom this is about money, you can't afford it. Magnus Hedemark points out: > If we ditch i486 then we turn our backs on tinkerers who use the popular i486 based Soekris boards who are likely to just use another distro instead of bootstrapping. What is a Soekris board? However, I am not aware that keeping tinkerers happy is an objective of this distro. For example, the cAos home page says this: "The project is focused on producing enterprise-level community-produced and managed solutions." Anyone who needs ENTERPRISE-LEVEL solutions for ENTERPRISE-LEVEL applications probably does not have time for tinkering, and even if they do, their enterprise will not jump to Debian because Debian works on 486's. I tried installing cAos on a Pentium I with 72 megs. It worked, but YUM crashed a lot. And my impression was the PC was snappier (faster) when running Debian with less than half the memory -- 24 megs. Based on that single trial, my conclusion was that Debian was a lot better than cAos for Pentium I's. I did not bother to even try cAos on my 486. So why are we having this discussion? (That is, why did Greg ask?) Finally, I know it is un-American, but yes, I walk to work. It is a 15 minute walk. And for part of my route, I am walking through a city park. In this way, I am SO LUCKY .... Rick From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Tue May 18 15:58:08 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] more about cheap hardware In-Reply-To: <20040518160001.7788.69567.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040518225808.40276.qmail@web14715.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, Pentium II's may be cheap on ebay, but the shipping can be more than double the price! Here is an example: Micron Millennia XKu Pentium II 300/64/4GB CD, ZIP http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51097&item=4131261483&rd=1 The picture shows it even has two fans. As of this moment, three bids have pushed the price up to US $15.59. Further down, you find .. Shipping Within the 48 Continental United States: $32.00 To Canada via Economy Parcel Post (4-6 weeks): $43.00 To Canada via Airmail Parcel Post (4-7 days): $61.00 To Canada via Global Express Mail (2-3 days): $- -.00 Local pickup fee - $2.00 per item. This is why your local used computer store (or friendly neighorhood junk dealer, if you are so lucky) may be a better option for low value, heavy items like Pentium II boxes. And they are probably stacked to the ceiling in every locale with companies big and prosperous enough to have migrated to Win XP already. Rick From Tom.DeBlende at dhl.com Wed May 19 00:26:24 2004 From: Tom.DeBlende at dhl.com (Tom DE BLENDE (GCC)) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:26:24 +0200 Subject: [cAos] more about cheap hardware In-Reply-To: <20040518225808.40276.qmail@web14715.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040518225808.40276.qmail@web14715.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40AB0C20.2020305@dhl.com> Rick Graves wrote: >Hey, > >Pentium II's may be cheap on ebay, but the shipping >can be more than double the price! > True. But I live in Belgium, so when I buy a PII on E-Bay, I can usually take my car and pick it up. :-) But I understand that it might be a little more awkward in the USA... I see a lot of Dell Optiplex and Compaq Deskpro EN on the second hand market. Most if it can be bought for around ?50-?75 (more expensive than in the USA, but hardware always is more expensive in Europe). Still cheaper than a broadband router with printer support ;-) From laytonjb at charter.net Wed May 19 02:29:32 2004 From: laytonjb at charter.net (Jeffrey B. Layton) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 05:29:32 -0400 Subject: [cAos] OT: yum questions In-Reply-To: <20040518054900.GB26224@runlevelzero.net> References: <40A9472B.4000902@charter.net> <20040518054900.GB26224@runlevelzero.net> Message-ID: <40AB28FC.7090102@charter.net> Greg Kurtzer wrote: >On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 07:13:47PM -0400, Jeffrey B. Layton told me: > > >>It looks pretty straightforward. However, I started to >>put together a list of the rpms and this is where I got >>confused. In the above list, are these the names of the >>rpms themselves? (for example, XFree86.xxxx.rpm). >> >> > >Use only the names of the rpms themselves. Not the entire version. YUM will >figure out which versions should be used automatically. > Should I list all of the rpms for the group or just the major ones? (I assume that yum will handle the dependencies for me if I list just the major ones). >>If so, how does yum know what xxxx is? Also, are there >>any dependencies in the list of packages above? If so, >>when I plan my rpm list for the CD, do I need to figure out >>the dependencies myself? Am I making some sense? :) >> >> > >YUM always assumes the newest version with the given name. It ignores older >packages. YUM will also figure out the dependencies for all of the listed >packages for you, but as you noted you will have to build a self contained >(all deps resolved) repository for all packages that you wish to install on >the iso itself. You can use tools like yum-arch with the -d option to show any >dependency issues in the repo itself, or you can make a chroot for this >purpose: > > # mkdir -p /tmp/testroot/etc/ > # cp /etc/yum.conf /tmp/testroot/etc > # vi /tmp/testroot/etc/yum.conf > - Add the repository that you are testing and remove all others > # yum --installroot /tmp/testroot groupinstall [group list...] > >After it installs your chroot, you will have all of the needed rpms in >/tmp/testroot/var/cache/yum/*/packages/. I realize that this is not an elegant >way of handling this, but right now YUM will not generate the package list any >easier (well, at least any way easier that I know of). > Sounds good. Thanks for the details. I was thinking of doing something like this, but now that you've given me some details... - thanks! Thanks again! Jeff > >Greg > > From landman at scalableinformatics.com Wed May 19 04:51:23 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:51:23 -0400 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch Message-ID: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> Folks: Started an install on fresh hardware, new media with a new download of cinch (yesterday). Got the the repository bit. Found a repository, set it up, walked away. Got back a bit later to a yum error. It was complaining about the repository. It was accessible, but python crapped out. Did not tell me which RPM. Is there a way to force cinch to write a current/synced log to /tmp so I can diagnose this? Hardware is a testbed Athlon XP 2500+, 1 GB ram, lots of fast disk. Passes memory tests. Selecting different repositories seems to die in similar places (but I cannot be sure due to the lack of a full log). It does seem to be pulling files from the repositories. Thanks. Joe -- Joseph Landman, Ph.D Scalable Informatics LLC, email: landman at scalableinformatics.com web : http://scalableinformatics.com phone: +1 734 612 4615 From lance at uklinux.net Wed May 19 08:58:01 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (lance at uklinux.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:58:01 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] Important Change to mirror.caosity.org, mirror.centos.org Message-ID: mirror.caosity.org is going to become a cluster of 3 servers - using round-robin dns. all uploads need to be done in future to master.caosity.org which will be the new mirror master - the others will sync off of that one. Please make sure that all scripts etc that do uploading are changed to upload to master.caosity.org Once the rr dns records are in place you may find that you may not be able to upload any more as you may hit the wrong server ... Lance ps orc, greg, troj, jnewbiggin please confirm -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From greg at runlevelzero.net Wed May 19 10:00:00 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:00:00 -0700 Subject: [cAos] OT: yum questions In-Reply-To: <40AB28FC.7090102@charter.net> References: <40A9472B.4000902@charter.net> <20040518054900.GB26224@runlevelzero.net> <40AB28FC.7090102@charter.net> Message-ID: <20040519170000.GB4583@runlevelzero.net> On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 05:29:32AM -0400, Jeffrey B. Layton told me: > >Use only the names of the rpms themselves. Not the entire version. YUM will > >figure out which versions should be used automatically. > > > > Should I list all of the rpms for the group or just the major ones? > (I assume that yum will handle the dependencies for me if I > list just the major ones). Yum will solve the dependency tree, so you only need to specify the major packages that should be part of the group. Something to keep in mind however is that the more packages you include in your package list to solve the dependencies, the less times YUM will have to loop through yet another dep check which means faster install times, and less memory consumption (if you have not noticed, yum is a memory HOG!!). Have fun! :) -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From greg at runlevelzero.net Wed May 19 10:07:10 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:07:10 -0700 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> Hey Joe! All Errors are pushed to the third VT ([ALT]-[F3]) and it should state there what the specific yum error is. Here are some questions that will help me diagnose the error: Install media type: (if CDROM, look for errors regarding bad media on VT3) Repository: (chilled, certified, crazy, ISO only)... Mirror: What is the mirror that you selected? Cinch version: (shown on first page of install) On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 07:51:23AM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > Folks: > > Started an install on fresh hardware, new media with a new download of > cinch (yesterday). Got the the repository bit. Found a repository, set > it up, walked away. Got back a bit later to a yum error. It was > complaining about the repository. It was accessible, but python crapped > out. Did not tell me which RPM. > > Is there a way to force cinch to write a current/synced log to /tmp so > I can diagnose this? Hardware is a testbed Athlon XP 2500+, 1 GB ram, > lots of fast disk. Passes memory tests. Selecting different > repositories seems to die in similar places (but I cannot be sure due to > the lack of a full log). It does seem to be pulling files from the > repositories. > > Thanks. > > Joe > -- > Joseph Landman, Ph.D > Scalable Informatics LLC, > email: landman at scalableinformatics.com > web : http://scalableinformatics.com > phone: +1 734 612 4615 > > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From landman at scalableinformatics.com Wed May 19 17:45:32 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:45:32 -0400 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> Message-ID: <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 13:07, Greg Kurtzer wrote: > Hey Joe! > > All Errors are pushed to the third VT ([ALT]-[F3]) and it should state there > what the specific yum error is. > > Here are some questions that will help me diagnose the error: > > Install media type: (if CDROM, look for errors regarding bad media on VT3) CDROM. No media errors that I saw in the VT3 display. > > Repository: (chilled, certified, crazy, ISO only). Happens with chilled, and certified. Have not tried crazy. > .. > > Mirror: What is the mirror that you selected? Tried a whole bunch: Gatech (numbers 9,12,11, and some of the slower ones). > > Cinch version: (shown on first page of install) 2.03. > > > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 07:51:23AM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > > Folks: > > > > Started an install on fresh hardware, new media with a new download of > > cinch (yesterday). Got the the repository bit. Found a repository, set > > it up, walked away. Got back a bit later to a yum error. It was > > complaining about the repository. It was accessible, but python crapped > > out. Did not tell me which RPM. > > > > Is there a way to force cinch to write a current/synced log to /tmp so > > I can diagnose this? Hardware is a testbed Athlon XP 2500+, 1 GB ram, > > lots of fast disk. Passes memory tests. Selecting different > > repositories seems to die in similar places (but I cannot be sure due to > > the lack of a full log). It does seem to be pulling files from the > > repositories. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Joe > > -- > > Joseph Landman, Ph.D > > Scalable Informatics LLC, > > email: landman at scalableinformatics.com > > web : http://scalableinformatics.com > > phone: +1 734 612 4615 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cAos mailing list > > cAos at caosity.org > > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos -- Joseph Landman, Ph.D Scalable Informatics LLC, email: landman at scalableinformatics.com web : http://scalableinformatics.com phone: +1 734 612 4615 From mej at caosity.org Wed May 19 17:51:28 2004 From: mej at caosity.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:51:28 -0400 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: <20040520005128.GA30131@kainx.org> On Wednesday, 19 May 2004, at 20:45:32 (-0400), Joe Landman wrote: > X-Bogosity: No, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=0.17.5 > int cnt prob spamicity histogram > 0.00 56 0.025418 0.022249 ################################################ > 0.10 5 0.110087 0.030667 ##### > 0.20 0 0.000000 0.030667 > 0.30 0 0.000000 0.030667 > 0.40 0 0.000000 0.030667 > 0.50 0 0.000000 0.030667 > 0.60 0 0.000000 0.030667 > 0.70 0 0.000000 0.030667 > 0.80 0 0.000000 0.030667 > 0.90 3 0.999669 0.254932 ### Whoever thought that header was a good idea is in dire need of a sulfuric acid enema. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham From greg at runlevelzero.net Wed May 19 21:53:11 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:53:11 -0700 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> Were there any errors on VT3? What happens if you try to install by hand: switch to VT2: # yum --installroot /newroot groupinstall core base On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 08:45:32PM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 13:07, Greg Kurtzer wrote: > > Hey Joe! > > > > All Errors are pushed to the third VT ([ALT]-[F3]) and it should state there > > what the specific yum error is. > > > > Here are some questions that will help me diagnose the error: > > > > Install media type: (if CDROM, look for errors regarding bad media on VT3) > > CDROM. No media errors that I saw in the VT3 display. > > > > > Repository: (chilled, certified, crazy, ISO only). > > Happens with chilled, and certified. Have not tried crazy. > > > .. > > > > Mirror: What is the mirror that you selected? > > Tried a whole bunch: Gatech (numbers 9,12,11, and some of the slower > ones). > > > > > Cinch version: (shown on first page of install) > > 2.03. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 07:51:23AM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > > > Folks: > > > > > > Started an install on fresh hardware, new media with a new download of > > > cinch (yesterday). Got the the repository bit. Found a repository, set > > > it up, walked away. Got back a bit later to a yum error. It was > > > complaining about the repository. It was accessible, but python crapped > > > out. Did not tell me which RPM. > > > > > > Is there a way to force cinch to write a current/synced log to /tmp so > > > I can diagnose this? Hardware is a testbed Athlon XP 2500+, 1 GB ram, > > > lots of fast disk. Passes memory tests. Selecting different > > > repositories seems to die in similar places (but I cannot be sure due to > > > the lack of a full log). It does seem to be pulling files from the > > > repositories. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Joe > > > -- > > > Joseph Landman, Ph.D > > > Scalable Informatics LLC, > > > email: landman at scalableinformatics.com > > > web : http://scalableinformatics.com > > > phone: +1 734 612 4615 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > cAos mailing list > > > cAos at caosity.org > > > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > -- > Joseph Landman, Ph.D > Scalable Informatics LLC, > email: landman at scalableinformatics.com > web : http://scalableinformatics.com > phone: +1 734 612 4615 > > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From lance at uklinux.net Thu May 20 04:14:44 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (lance at uklinux.net) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:14:44 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3.1 update2 Message-ID: Unless anyone shouts I intend to push all the update2/testing stuff into updates for 3.1 later on today - say about 22:00 UTC All the security related updates have already been released. I am not convinced that lack of feedback means that there are no problems, more likely it means that not many people have tested the stuff, but I have had no serious problems and cant do any more testing. The only problem I did see was that the CentOS gpg key had to be re-imported after the update, I assume due to the rpm upgrade. If anyone wants a chance to test the CentOS-3.1 update2 stuff then please shout and I will hold back the release. To test it just uncomment the [testing] repo in yum.conf (but not the gpgcheck line). Any issues either email or post to bugzilla. Thanks Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From lance at uklinux.net Thu May 20 04:18:43 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:18:43 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] Re: [Centos] CentOS-3.1 update2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004 lance at uklinux.net wrote: > To test it just uncomment the [testing] repo in yum.conf (but not the > gpgcheck line). oh - and then run 'yum update' :) Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From landman at scalableinformatics.com Thu May 20 04:49:34 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:49:34 -0400 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> Message-ID: <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> On Wed, 19 May 2004 21:53:11 -0700, Greg Kurtzer wrote > Were there any errors on VT3? mount: /dev/hdb is write-protected, mounting read-only Error getting file file:///mnt/cdrom/RPMS/i386/headers/newt-0-0.51.4-2.caos.i386.hdr [Errno 4] IOError: [Errno5] Input/Output error (modulo transcription errors) This seems to point to the media, but it passes MD5 checksums. > What happens if you try to install by hand: > > switch to VT2: > # yum --installroot /newroot groupinstall core base Doing that now. Will report again after it finishes/quits. Should I try for the full network install, and forget about the CD based portion? Would this possibly help? Joe > > On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 08:45:32PM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > > On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 13:07, Greg Kurtzer wrote: > > > Hey Joe! > > > > > > All Errors are pushed to the third VT ([ALT]-[F3]) and it should state there > > > what the specific yum error is. > > > > > > Here are some questions that will help me diagnose the error: > > > > > > Install media type: (if CDROM, look for errors regarding bad media on VT3) > > > > CDROM. No media errors that I saw in the VT3 display. > > > > > > > > Repository: (chilled, certified, crazy, ISO only). > > > > Happens with chilled, and certified. Have not tried crazy. > > > > > .. > > > > > > Mirror: What is the mirror that you selected? > > > > Tried a whole bunch: Gatech (numbers 9,12,11, and some of the slower > > ones). > > > > > > > > Cinch version: (shown on first page of install) > > > > 2.03. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 07:51:23AM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > > > > Folks: > > > > > > > > Started an install on fresh hardware, new media with a new download of > > > > cinch (yesterday). Got the the repository bit. Found a repository, set > > > > it up, walked away. Got back a bit later to a yum error. It was > > > > complaining about the repository. It was accessible, but python crapped > > > > out. Did not tell me which RPM. > > > > > > > > Is there a way to force cinch to write a current/synced log to /tmp so > > > > I can diagnose this? Hardware is a testbed Athlon XP 2500+, 1 GB ram, > > > > lots of fast disk. Passes memory tests. Selecting different > > > > repositories seems to die in similar places (but I cannot be sure due to > > > > the lack of a full log). It does seem to be pulling files from the > > > > repositories. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > -- > > > > Joseph Landman, Ph.D > > > > Scalable Informatics LLC, > > > > email: landman at scalableinformatics.com > > > > web : http://scalableinformatics.com > > > > phone: +1 734 612 4615 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > cAos mailing list > > > > cAos at caosity.org > > > > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > > -- > > Joseph Landman, Ph.D > > Scalable Informatics LLC, > > email: landman at scalableinformatics.com > > web : http://scalableinformatics.com > > phone: +1 734 612 4615 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cAos mailing list > > cAos at caosity.org > > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > > -- > Greg M. Kurtzer > http://runlevelzero.net/ > http://caosity.org/ > http://warewulf-cluster.org/ > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos -- Joseph Landman, Ph.D Scalable Informatics LLC, email: landman at scalableinformatics.com web : http://scalableinformatics.com phone: +1 734 612 4615 From landman at scalableinformatics.com Thu May 20 05:06:34 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:06:34 -0400 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: <20040520115908.M95716@scalableinformatics.com> On Thu, 20 May 2004 07:49:34 -0400, Joe Landman wrote [...] > > What happens if you try to install by hand: > > > > switch to VT2: > > # yum --installroot /newroot groupinstall core base > > Doing that now. Will report again after it finishes/quits. Fails. The error is (much longer, could I ask you folks to put either scp/ssh or ncftp into the boot image? ) Damaged header /var/cache/yum/iso_core/headers/newt-0-0.51.4-2.caos.i386.hdr retrygrab() failed for: file:///mnt/cdrom/RPMS/i386/headers/newt-0-0.51.4-2.caos.i386.hdr Executing failover method failover: out of servers to try Error getting file file:///mnt/cdrom/RPMS/i386/headers/newt-0-0.51.4-2.caos.i386.hdr [Errno 4] IOError: [Errno 5] Input/Output error From landman at scalableinformatics.com Thu May 20 06:06:12 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <20040520115908.M95716@scalableinformatics.com> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> <20040520115908.M95716@scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: Re-downloaded, re-certified the md5sum, removed some extraneous hardware (was getting an IRQ probe error on the CD which now seems to be gone), and retrying... more later... Joe From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Thu May 20 06:11:34 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 06:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: supporting Intel architectures In-Reply-To: <20040519160000.17956.90362.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040520131134.92576.qmail@web14711.mail.yahoo.com> Greg and Michael, Are we getting conflicting information? Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:38:02 -0700 From: Greg Kurtzer To: caos at caosity.org Subject: [cAos] caos2 development... ... I have a couple of questions for you folks... What architectures should be supported? I was thinking of dropping 386, and migrating the lowest default arch to 586, and then also including 686, athlon, x86_64 and possibly Itanium (one day). Are there any major opinions here? ... Greg Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:08:09 -0400 From: Michael Jennings To: caos at caosity.org Subject: Re: [cAos] Obsolete hardware ... Just to be clear, my current builds use -march=pentium. We're discussing whether or not that gets changed to -march=i486. Michael I may be the person here who shelled out hard cash for a Pentium I or lower most recently (Saturday). Perhaps it would be OK to support the 486 as long as the enterprise level users do not sacrifice in any way. (BTW, I think a bigger kernel would be a sacrifice.) Rick From landman at scalableinformatics.com Thu May 20 06:13:52 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> <20040520115908.M95716@scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: Related question: I would like to mirror the relevant repositories internally. I started rsyncing up from one of the other sites, and it hit 6GB rather quickly. Is all of this really needed? Basically I want to be able to take the repository with me on a USB/firewire drive to where-ever I want/need to do an install. Some of the sites do not have internet access, so I need to be able to do the repository install from the USB device. Can boot from CD, but would need to have a portable repository not requiring a net access. So with this said, is simply rsyncing one of the other mirrors the most appropriate method to mirror this? Joe On Thu, 20 May 2004, Joe Landman wrote: > Re-downloaded, re-certified the md5sum, removed some extraneous hardware > (was getting an IRQ probe error on the CD which now seems to be gone), and > retrying... more later... > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > From jim at rossberry.com Thu May 20 07:24:11 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3.1 update2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004 lance at uklinux.net wrote: > If anyone wants a chance to test the CentOS-3.1 update2 stuff then please > shout and I will hold back the release. [root at ino0l044]# yum update Resolving dependencies .conflict between initscripts and kbd [root at ino0l044 root]# rpm -q initscripts initscripts-7.31.9.EL-1.centos.1 [root at ino0l044 root]# rpm -q kbd package kbd is not installed [root at ino0l044 root]# yum -c yum.conf list | grep initscripts initscripts i386 7.31.13.EL-1.centos.1 testing [root at ino0l044 root]# yum -c yum.conf list | grep kbd kbd i386 1.08-10.2 testing ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim at rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com From jim at rossberry.com Thu May 20 07:25:48 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3.1 update2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004 lance at uklinux.net wrote: > If anyone wants a chance to test the CentOS-3.1 update2 stuff then please > shout and I will hold back the release. The issue with initscripts and kbd may go back further than the testing repo. I was trying to add all missing packages to a box yesterday (different CentOS 3.1 box) and got the same error. I was not using the testing repo on that box. Let me know if you need more info. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim at rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com From lance at uklinux.net Thu May 20 07:41:54 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:41:54 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3.1 update2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yOn Thu, 20 May 2004, Jim Wildman wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 2004 lance at uklinux.net wrote: > > > If anyone wants a chance to test the CentOS-3.1 update2 stuff then please > > shout and I will hold back the release. > > > [root at ino0l044]# yum update > > Resolving dependencies > .conflict between initscripts and kbd > [root at ino0l044 root]# rpm -q initscripts > initscripts-7.31.9.EL-1.centos.1 > [root at ino0l044 root]# rpm -q kbd > package kbd is not installed > [root at ino0l044 root]# yum -c yum.conf list | grep initscripts > initscripts i386 7.31.13.EL-1.centos.1 testing > [root at ino0l044 root]# yum -c yum.conf list | grep kbd > kbd i386 1.08-10.2 testing Looks like the issue is that you dont have kbd installed - which surprises me. anaconda installs with nodeps so would have installed it even if their was an issue ... I have both of the updates installed without issue , so I am not sure where the problem lies. Will yum with a higher debug number give more info about the conflict ?? Regards Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From lance at uklinux.net Thu May 20 07:43:22 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:43:22 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3.1 update2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Jim Wildman wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 2004 lance at uklinux.net wrote: > > > If anyone wants a chance to test the CentOS-3.1 update2 stuff then please > > shout and I will hold back the release. > > The issue with initscripts and kbd may go back further than the testing > repo. I was trying to add all missing packages to a box yesterday > (different CentOS 3.1 box) and got the same error. I was not using the > testing repo on that box. I wonder if this is related :- rpm -e kbd error reading information on service keytable: No such file or directory error: %trigger(kbd-1.08-10.2) scriptlet failed, exit status 1 'service keytable' would seem to have a relationship to initscripts ... Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From greg at runlevelzero.net Thu May 20 08:48:20 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:48:20 -0700 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> <20040520115908.M95716@scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: <20040520154820.GA12174@runlevelzero.net> On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 09:13:52AM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > Related question: > > I would like to mirror the relevant repositories internally. I started > rsyncing up from one of the other sites, and it hit 6GB rather quickly. > Is all of this really needed? Basically I want to be able to take the > repository with me on a USB/firewire drive to where-ever I want/need to do > an install. Some of the sites do not have internet access, so I need to > be able to do the repository install from the USB device. Can boot from > CD, but would need to have a portable repository not requiring a net > access. Make sure when you do the rsync, you invoke it with the -H flag to preserve the hard links (which are used to keep the size down). Also, you can omit the creation and crazy directory if size is an issue. > So with this said, is simply rsyncing one of the other mirrors the most > appropriate method to mirror this? Notes for mirrors are posted at: http://caosity.org/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=85&op=page&SubMenu= -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From greg at runlevelzero.net Thu May 20 08:52:04 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:52:04 -0700 Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> <20040520115908.M95716@scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: <20040520155204.GB12174@runlevelzero.net> If this does not work, try the floppy only method, or remove the cdrom lines from the yum.conf on the screen after it builds the default file system configurations (right before the yum install). I will start testing the current ISO to make sure the problem is not with the ISO itself. BTW: I have seen this error before on bad CDROMs with cinch. Good luck! On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 09:06:12AM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > Re-downloaded, re-certified the md5sum, removed some extraneous hardware > (was getting an IRQ probe error on the CD which now seems to be gone), and > retrying... more later... > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From landman at scalableinformatics.com Thu May 20 08:57:21 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] problems with an install using latest cinch In-Reply-To: <20040520155204.GB12174@runlevelzero.net> References: <1084967483.2561.17.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040519170710.GC4583@runlevelzero.net> <1085013931.2758.24.camel@protein.scalableinformatics.com> <20040520045311.GA8733@runlevelzero.net> <20040520114322.M24855@scalableinformatics.com> <20040520115908.M95716@scalableinformatics.com> <20040520155204.GB12174@runlevelzero.net> Message-ID: I rebuilt the CDROM, and the error shows up in a different file. As a sanity check, I am running the SuSE 9.1 live CD on the machine, as well as Knoppix 3.4, and a number of others. All of them work, all burned from the same CD writer, same CD stack. I re-downloaded, re-compared the md5sums, etc. As this is an athlon, I wonder if we are running into a "noapic" needed issue. I'll rsync the trees, and see if I can do the install via the net. Joe ps: curiously, booting 2.6 on this machine swaps the PCI channel IDE controller with the internal IDE controller. My hda winds up being hdk for some reason. Not cAos related, but quite odd. On Thu, 20 May 2004, Greg Kurtzer wrote: > If this does not work, try the floppy only method, or remove the cdrom lines > from the yum.conf on the screen after it builds the default file system > configurations (right before the yum install). > > I will start testing the current ISO to make sure the problem is not with the > ISO itself. > > BTW: I have seen this error before on bad CDROMs with cinch. > > Good luck! > > On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 09:06:12AM -0400, Joe Landman told me: > > Re-downloaded, re-certified the md5sum, removed some extraneous hardware > > (was getting an IRQ probe error on the CD which now seems to be gone), and > > retrying... more later... > > > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > > cAos mailing list > > cAos at caosity.org > > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > > From mej at caosity.org Thu May 20 09:05:07 2004 From: mej at caosity.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:05:07 -0400 Subject: [cAos] Re: supporting Intel architectures In-Reply-To: <20040520131134.92576.qmail@web14711.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040519160000.17956.90362.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> <20040520131134.92576.qmail@web14711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040520160507.GC20625@kainx.org> On Thursday, 20 May 2004, at 06:11:34 (-0700), Rick Graves wrote: > Are we getting conflicting information? Nope. We're still tossing around ideas and opinions. > Perhaps it would be OK to support the 486 as long as the enterprise > level users do not sacrifice in any way. (BTW, I think a bigger > kernel would be a sacrifice.) There's a reason RH offers a select few packages as both i386 and i686 versions: It really doesn't make much difference except in those few packages. I don't think it's worthwhile making i486, i586, and i686 incarnations of every package. Although it certainly could be done... IA64 and x86_64 are a different story altogether.... Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of a soul that has lost its way." -- G'Kar, Babylon 5 From jim at rossberry.com Thu May 20 09:19:45 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3.1 update2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2004, Lance Davis wrote: > rpm -e kbd > error reading information on service keytable: No such file or directory > error: %trigger(kbd-1.08-10.2) scriptlet failed, exit status 1 > > > 'service keytable' would seem to have a relationship to initscripts ... Manually adding kbd and then updating from testing worked just fine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim at rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com From lance at uklinux.net Thu May 20 16:04:26 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (lance at uklinux.net) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:04:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] CentOS 3.1 update2 packages released Message-ID: The CentOS 3.1 update2 packages have now been released. They are available on mirror.centos.org and should be on all mirrors within a few hours. To update just run 'yum update' Please bugzilla any problems. There was a problem with the pam build in testing not being linked against the laus library, so the released version is a .c0 so that anyone who has installed the testing version will get the real one on updating. The only package that is missing from these updates is rhgb - that needs some artwork and testing and will be done in the next couple of days. The new anaconda and firstboot will be built into a new set of isos - release 3.2 , within the next week or so. Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From lance at uklinux.net Thu May 20 19:14:05 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 03:14:05 +0100 (BST) Subject: [cAos] Re: [CentOS-devel] CentOS 3.1 update2 packages released In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004 lance at uklinux.net wrote: > > The CentOS 3.1 update2 packages have now been released. > The only other caveat is that you may find that the CentOS-3 GPG key needs reimporting after the update ..... rpm --import /usr/share/doc/centos-release-3.1/RPM-GPG-KEY Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Fri May 21 16:05:53 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: which architectures to support In-Reply-To: <20040521160000.19302.26858.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040521230553.46680.qmail@web14714.mail.yahoo.com> Michael, > We're still tossing around ideas and opinions. Thats good. Here is my opinion: I think the final decision should be focused on the primary goal of the distribution -- meeting the needs of enterprise-level users. Decision makers should bear in mind that the time of our key people is probably the project's most precious resource. Within that framework, it is perfectly OK to give the tinkerers what they want, to the extent possible. Rick From centos at 911networks.com Thu May 20 19:44:27 2004 From: centos at 911networks.com (syv) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:44:27 -0700 Subject: [cAos] Re: [Centos] CentOS 3.1 update2 packages released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1265874666.20040520194427@911networks.com> Hi lance, Thursday, May 20, 2004, 4:04:26 PM, you wrote: lun> The new anaconda and firstboot will be built into a new set of isos - lun> release 3.2 , within the next week or so. Thanks with great appreciation for all the hard work you are doing. -- Thanks centos at 911networks.com When the network has to work From landman at scalableinformatics.com Tue May 25 18:48:35 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] More about the install problems Message-ID: Hi Folks: I replaced a hard disk as I thought it was problematic. I then proceeded to install the several different distros that I will be using on this machine for testing (ROCKS, Gentoo 2004.1, cAos). ROCKS and Gentoo went on ok. No showstoppers, all module type problems. Network works and all that. Caos is still having problems. Same error messages as before. This time, I decided to try several different of the servers. Finally the server number 8 on the list worked. It is now installing, hopefully it will work. The server error messages all say "Url return no content-length - something is wrong". This was for sunsite and gatech. Several of the others gave me similar errors. Some servers may be down, or have moved. I did make an rsync copy of one of the mirrors. While the procedure is simple, the rsync wound up copying in excess of 15 GB to my local disk. Is this correct? It doesnt seem like it should be the case. I would think that a full chilled/certified mirror would take 2-3 GB total. I think something is wrong with this, though I do not know precisely what. More later after the install. Joe From landman at scalableinformatics.com Tue May 25 21:50:31 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] It worked... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok, got it on there. Something might be up with the other repositories. Started working on building my NCBI BLAST RPMs. Compiler at 2.96? No.... really? Owww.... That hurts. Gonna have to hack those build patches a bit to deal with that steaming^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcompiler. Anyone have an upgraded RPM for gcc around? 3.4 would be good, though the 3.3 series is fine. From herrold at owlriver.com Tue May 25 23:15:33 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 02:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] It worked... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Joe Landman wrote: > Ok, got it on there. Something might be up with the other repositories. > Started working on building my NCBI BLAST RPMs. > > Compiler at 2.96? No.... really? Owww.... That hurts. Gonna have to > Anyone have an upgraded RPM for gcc around? 3.4 would be good, though the > 3.3 series is fine. ummm -- caos-1 carries a full gcc3 packaging -- Russ Herrold From landman at scalableinformatics.com Tue May 25 23:20:57 2004 From: landman at scalableinformatics.com (Joe Landman) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 02:20:57 -0400 Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] It worked... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40B43749.4000702@scalableinformatics.com> R P Herrold wrote: > >ummm -- caos-1 carries a full gcc3 packaging > > Found and installed it. The yum install gcc3-g77 had a man page conflict with gcc-2.96 FWIW. Is this worth a bug report? Of course now I have to fight the other side of the build environment to get it to use gcc3. More patching.... From herrold at owlriver.com Tue May 25 23:37:55 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 02:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] Re: cAos] It worked... In-Reply-To: <40B43749.4000702@scalableinformatics.com> References: <40B43749.4000702@scalableinformatics.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Joe Landman wrote: > Found and installed it. The yum install gcc3-g77 had a man page > conflict with gcc-2.96 FWIW. Is this worth a bug report? absolutely > Of course now I have to fight the other side of the build environment to > get it to use gcc3. More patching.... Build chroots are your friend -- yum loves to build them and get them correct -- a sample script which I rather like is at: ftp://ftp.owlriver.com/pub/local/ORC/ORCrebuild/RPHbuildchroot -- Russ Herrold From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Wed May 26 06:49:11 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 06:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] php help requested for cAos web site In-Reply-To: <20040524160001.17266.21430.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040526134911.6989.qmail@web14707.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, I hope to get some help on the cAos web site. I mentioned php, but I am sure perl or python would also be good. My name is Rick Graves, I was asked to help maintain the cAos web site because I claimed I could write (after a fashion). On that effort, I have made some progress. Thinking about cAos being a community distribution, and about the management structure, I thought it would be nice if cAos users and people off the street would have a way to contact the distribution's management. Concerning the distro's management, if you go to the site and choose About, Management, you will find this (in part): begin quote The cAos organization incorporates a series of checks and balances. There are three main parties or groups who influence the direction of cAos: * The steering committee: Made up of influential people in the community that have firm understandings of the current state of Linux, and the future. * The package maintainers: These are the people that are maintaining packages in the distro itself. * The project lead: His or her role is to represent both the project, and the broader community. When major decisions need to be addressed, it will have to go past these groups. If two of the groups decide an action needs to be made, it will happen. end quote We decided to use a web form to cut down on spam. You can find the web page placeholder by going to About, Contact Us. I thought there should be check boxes, so someone could type a message, and choose to send the message to the steering committee, the package maintainers, and/or the project lead. The steering committee and project lead are easy to handle within the mail program. The package maintainers are more of a challenge, as they are listed in a database. No one wants to maintain a separate list in parallel. So we need a script or two for web form to handle the mailing. Greg or Russ could do it, but they are busy coding for the distribution. If you think your skills are up to the job, I would guess that Greg and Russ would answer most or all of your questions. Your help would be appreciated. You can contact me at the mailing list, or directly by sending to gravesricharde at yahoo.com. Thanks, Rick From hlfedora at mchsi.com Sat May 29 09:48:26 2004 From: hlfedora at mchsi.com (hlfedora) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:48:26 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Everything Message-ID: I'm pretty new to cAos.. but I was wondering if there is a "everything install" method, instead of the WS or Server only option. I looked through the doc's but I'm not seeing anything related.. Thanks From hlfedora at mchsi.com Sat May 29 10:07:28 2004 From: hlfedora at mchsi.com (hlfedora) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:07:28 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Everything In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Disregard... I a boob! found it.. during install -----Original Message----- From: caos-admin at caosity.org [mailto:caos-admin at caosity.org]On Behalf Of hlfedora Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 11:48 AM To: caos at caosity.org Subject: [cAos] Everything I'm pretty new to cAos.. but I was wondering if there is a "everything install" method, instead of the WS or Server only option. I looked through the doc's but I'm not seeing anything related.. Thanks _______________________________________________ cAos mailing list cAos at caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos From herrold at owlriver.com Sat May 29 22:19:00 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 01:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] php help requested for cAos web site In-Reply-To: <20040526134911.6989.qmail@web14707.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040526134911.6989.qmail@web14707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2004, Rick Graves wrote: > The cAos organization incorporates a series of checks > and balances. There are three main parties or groups > who influence the direction of cAos: there are? We are a pretty easy to know and 'flat' organization, but 'checks and balances' probably overstates things -- all relevant persons are on this mailing list and in channel on the (logged) IRC > So we need a script or two for web form to handle the > mailing. ... ummm -- the per packager mailer tool already exists in the Temple for each maintainer and is self maintained for current information. -- Russ Herrold From m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl Sun May 30 00:14:20 2004 From: m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl (Maarten Stolte) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:14:20 +0200 Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] php help requested for cAos web site In-Reply-To: References: <20040526134911.6989.qmail@web14707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405300914.20340.m.stolte@datadevil.demon.nl> On Sunday 30 May 2004 07:19, R P Herrold wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2004, Rick Graves wrote: > > The cAos organization incorporates a series of checks > > and balances. There are three main parties or groups > > who influence the direction of cAos: > > there are? We are a pretty easy to know and 'flat' > organization, but 'checks and balances' probably overstates > things -- all relevant persons are on this mailing list and in > channel on the (logged) IRC > > > So we need a script or two for web form to handle the > > mailing. > > ... ummm -- the per packager mailer tool already exists in the > Temple for each maintainer and is self maintained for > current information. so what you are saying is: 1 - we don't need packager contact form since it is in temple 2 - the text should be different re. 1, not everyone can use temple to contact packagers can they? Then again, why would people want to contact specific packagers, if it is about bugs or rfe's, they can use bugzilla, and otherwise the email adresses are in the packages.... Maarten From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Sun May 30 15:08:04 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] per packager mailer In-Reply-To: <20040530160000.26708.50691.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040530220804.73607.qmail@web14713.mail.yahoo.com> Russ, This is repeat of an email that I sent to you privately. As a community Linux distribution, I think it would be good to give users and other persons a way to contact the people managing the distribution. The solution I have suggested is a "Contact Us" page in the web site. As you know, the Temple is NOT a public area. Having this or that in the Temple does not effect what should and should not be in the (public) cAos web site. Also, any disagreement over how the management is described would be a separate matter. I was getting input from Greg. If you are not happy with how management is described, we can form a committee (for example) to make sure that everyone is confortable with the content. I still want to move ahead on the Contact Us page without delay. So the Contact Us page can plug into the per packager mailer tool in the temple. Can I can plug into that myself with a script in the Contact Us page? You may recall that I can program in FoxPro, and I am reading some Python books. I would need help with php or perl. Please tell me what skills are needed to make the Contact Us page access the per packager mailer tool in the Temple. BTW, Greg suggested that I not ask you to do this so that you could concentrate on the stuff you are doing for the distribution. Thanks, Rick From gravesricharde at yahoo.com Sun May 30 15:48:56 2004 From: gravesricharde at yahoo.com (Rick Graves) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cAos] Re: description of cAos management In-Reply-To: <20040530160000.26708.50691.Mailman@caos1.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040530224856.77507.qmail@web14713.mail.yahoo.com> Russ, > We are a pretty easy to know and 'flat' > organization, but 'checks and balances' probably > overstates things While a web content committee is being organized, you could run your description of how cAos is managed by Greg, and after you two agree, I would be happy to update the site. As for anything else on the site you think could be better, run it by me first. If I wrote it, I will change it. If someone else wrote it, I will put you in contact with that person. Rick From greg at runlevelzero.net Mon May 31 16:43:34 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 16:43:34 -0700 Subject: [cAos] lack of appearant mirror activity Message-ID: <20040531234334.GA27826@runlevelzero.net> Just wanted to give an update on the current development status... cAos-1 has been handed off to Russ and he is working on some build automation and stabilization. Security updates are being released when needed. cAos-2 buildroot is still in development. We are _very_ close on both the ia32 and x86_64 versions. Once that gets released, we will do a bit more work on the temple code to support a slightly modified developer/repository model, and then let the developers and auto-builders loose. Greg -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/