From rog at saas.nsw.edu.au Fri Jan 2 21:04:50 2004 From: rog at saas.nsw.edu.au (Roger Buck) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:04:50 +1100 Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3 RC4 Intall Feedback Message-ID: <3FF64D72.2000406@saas.nsw.edu.au> I have completed a variety of clean CentOS-3 installs. General comment is "excellent"! OTOH, have discovered a variety of minor glitches depending on install type - some may have been user error so I am only including reproducible stuff. Some nitpicks.. would any of these be better sent to caosity bugzilla?: 1. Text mode install: disk-druid will not allow entry of mount point for a pre-exiting DOS/vfat partition 2. Text mode install does not seem to allow addition of DOS/vfat partition to bootloader menu (works fine in GUI install - and may be related to item 1. above). 3. I have installed using both Tulip + Intel865g NICs (have not tried others). Both of these nics sometimes (2 times in around 20-30 trials) have failed to initialise following a re-boot. This was tested using only one active NIC at any one time - On follow up, I found this seemingly related item: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/long_list.cgi?buglist=107998 4. If using (default) X login after inital install then user prompted to accept lic. + register with RH. 5. When using gnome X, the bottom left hand corner menu icon remains redhat instead of the very nice Centos button displayed on KDE menu :) 6. Most install and default index.html URL's still point to www.redhat.com - in addition to other occurences mentioned in archive of th is list. 7. I had to manually install glib-devel from CentOS ISO CD#3 to fix some problems when installing some stuff from source (I was careful to install all possible legacy devel tools, both during text and GUI based install - with the exception of choosing the "install everything" option :) I had no problems manually downloading and using rpmbuild to install latest EL3 updates from RH. Until now, have just just been testing random install stuff. Please advise if there is anything I can more constructively trial from a user perspective. Thanks again :) R. From greg at runlevelzero.net Sun Jan 4 20:14:08 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:14:08 -0800 Subject: [cAos] Repo work... Message-ID: <20040105041408.GB32300@runlevelzero.net> I have been getting all sorts of emails about the broken repository. What happened was that I was testing the auto updating stuff, and the packages that I was working on for the beta release were not completely ready. The autoupdate scripts kicked on in the middle of the night, and by morning guess what... Remember this is still in alpha! ;) Well, this is good news too. I did not realize so many people were testing it! Great news! And with that said, I apologize for the broken repo, and I am fixing it now. ;) Greg -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From greg at runlevelzero.net Sun Jan 4 21:45:28 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 21:45:28 -0800 Subject: [cAos] Repo work... In-Reply-To: <20040105041408.GB32300@runlevelzero.net> References: <20040105041408.GB32300@runlevelzero.net> Message-ID: <20040105054528.GA5265@runlevelzero.net> OK, I think everything is fixed. Actually, it turned out to be only one bad package (slang). Thus the beta repository has been pushed live, and I am working on a couple of bugs in cinch (the installer). Expect the formal BETA release to happen tomorrow (Monday Jan 05). On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 08:14:08PM -0800, Greg Kurtzer told me: > I have been getting all sorts of emails about the broken repository. What > happened was that I was testing the auto updating stuff, and the packages that > I was working on for the beta release were not completely ready. The autoupdate > scripts kicked on in the middle of the night, and by morning guess what... > > Remember this is still in alpha! ;) > > Well, this is good news too. I did not realize so many people were testing it! > Great news! And with that said, I apologize for the broken repo, and I am > fixing it now. ;) > > Greg > -- > Greg M. Kurtzer > http://runlevelzero.net/ > http://caosity.org/ > http://warewulf-cluster.org/ > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From mhedemark at trueposition.com Mon Jan 5 04:31:05 2004 From: mhedemark at trueposition.com (Hedemark, Magnus) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:31:05 -0500 Subject: [cAos] CentOS-3 RC4 Intall Feedback Message-ID: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D48@mailhost.trueposition.com> Roger Buck [mailto:rog at saas.nsw.edu.au] said: > Some nitpicks.. would any of these be better sent to caosity > bugzilla?: Bugzilla is a great place to check for known issues, and to report unknown issues. The appropriate maintainer(s) will get notified of your problem report, you will be notified of its resolution, and other people experiencing the same problem can subscribe to updates or contribute fixes. From greg at runlevelzero.net Mon Jan 5 10:44:12 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:44:12 -0800 Subject: [cAos] cAos BETA-1 has been posted Message-ID: <20040105184411.GA32748@runlevelzero.net> cAos BETA-1 has been released. This release signifies the point in which package maintainers should start maintaining. Please obtain a temple account at https://temple.caosity.org/ which will enable you to begin posting your packages in the distribution. Thanks, and have fun! Greg -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From herrold at owlriver.com Thu Jan 8 10:21:41 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:21:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:03:23 -0500 (EST) From: R P Herrold To: Eric S. Raymond Cc: cAos mailing list Subject: Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Once again, I run 37 projects which I would like to make available in the > Fedora repository. I'm trying to develop a way I can ship RPMS, or > equivalent metadata from which the Fedora project can build RPMs, > automatically every time I do a point release. > > What do I have to do? And why isn't this documented clearly > and completely? Don't you want the repository to be well > populated? Eric, on behalf of cAos (http://www.caosity.org/), I would like to invite you to package and submit them all today, and get them into caos-1 extras at once. You may remember me from early bugreps on fetchmail (leaving a core with plaintext email passwds was one of mine); also I have known your backup fetchmail maintainer, Rob Funk for years, and asked him to pass along the privately discovered vulenrability in it a few months ago, which was then hashed out on vendor-sec as to release details The process is easy: - join the mailing list - set up an account - seek upload priv's (which will be granted forthwith) - transfer in a SRPM rsync @temple.caosity.org:: - the autobuilder will build it and place it in the untrusted archive in abou an hour. - work and fix your bugs as they appear in the Bugzilla - optionally, join in the fun on the IRC channel Obviously QAing and so forth also are happening, but that will get you started. I could use a update on the gif2png which I use all the time. Hoping to see you today. -- Russ Herrold From james_wildman at bankone.com Thu Jan 8 11:40:30 2004 From: james_wildman at bankone.com (james_wildman at bankone.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:40:30 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure (fwd) Message-ID: Nice touch. Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE Open Systems Eng. Sr I Unix Infrastructure Services Enterprise Midrange: Bank One - Infrastructure and Operations James_Wildman at BankOne.com Desk: 614.217.0470 Pager: 877.344.1645 Text email: 8773441645 at airmessage.net R P Herrold cc: Sent by: Subject: [cAos] Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM caos-admin at cao submission procedure (fwd) sity.org 01/08/2004 01:21 PM Please respond to caos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:03:23 -0500 (EST) From: R P Herrold To: Eric S. Raymond Cc: cAos mailing list Subject: Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Once again, I run 37 projects which I would like to make available in the > Fedora repository. I'm trying to develop a way I can ship RPMS, or > equivalent metadata from which the Fedora project can build RPMs, > automatically every time I do a point release. > > What do I have to do? And why isn't this documented clearly > and completely? Don't you want the repository to be well > populated? Eric, on behalf of cAos (http://www.caosity.org/), I would like to invite you to package and submit them all today, and get them into caos-1 extras at once. You may remember me from early bugreps on fetchmail (leaving a core with plaintext email passwds was one of mine); also I have known your backup fetchmail maintainer, Rob Funk for years, and asked him to pass along the privately discovered vulenrability in it a few months ago, which was then hashed out on vendor-sec as to release details The process is easy: - join the mailing list - set up an account - seek upload priv's (which will be granted forthwith) - transfer in a SRPM rsync @temple.caosity.org:: - the autobuilder will build it and place it in the untrusted archive in abou an hour. - work and fix your bugs as they appear in the Bugzilla - optionally, join in the fun on the IRC channel Obviously QAing and so forth also are happening, but that will get you started. I could use a update on the gif2png which I use all the time. Hoping to see you today. -- Russ Herrold _______________________________________________ cAos mailing list cAos at caosity.org http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. From mhedemark at trueposition.com Thu Jan 8 11:52:21 2004 From: mhedemark at trueposition.com (Hedemark, Magnus) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:52:21 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure (fwd) Message-ID: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D70@mailhost.trueposition.com> james_wildman at bankone.com [mailto:james_wildman at bankone.com] said: > Nice touch. [snip 8 lines of signature] [snip horribly reformatted quote of entire thread] [snip another 9 lines of disclaimer] Really, did we need all of that for two words? Even if you didn't quote a single thing, seventeen lines of signature (that's not counting the whitespace) is shameful. If your employer burdens you with the nine lines of disclaimer, and you use the weak argument that so many top posters do of having a lousy MUA enforced by the company (hey I'm using Outlook and can manage to compose a decent reply), why not get a Hotmail account or something instead of sharing your burden with the rest of us? From james_wildman at bankone.com Thu Jan 8 12:09:01 2004 From: james_wildman at bankone.com (james_wildman at bankone.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:09:01 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure (fwd) Message-ID: My bad. That was supposed to just go to Russ. Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE Open Systems Eng. Sr I Unix Infrastructure Services Enterprise Midrange: Bank One - Infrastructure and Operations James_Wildman at BankOne.com Desk: 614.217.0470 Pager: 877.344.1645 Text email: 8773441645 at airmessage.net This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. From rog at saas.nsw.edu.au Thu Jan 8 12:36:59 2004 From: rog at saas.nsw.edu.au (Roger Buck) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:36:59 +1100 Subject: [cAos] Centos-3 Kernel Updates Message-ID: <3FFDBF6B.3050304@saas.nsw.edu.au> I am trialling Centos-3 build4rc-0. Though not yet "production", the server is does have a 24x7 public interface. What is the best way to deal with current/future kernel updates such as: http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/security/story/0,2000048600,20282396,00.htm Should I just DL a vanilla kernel from kernel.org. Do I need to do do anything "special" to integrate vanilla kernel with Centos-3 .iso based distro.? R. From rocky at atipa.com Thu Jan 8 12:48:39 2004 From: rocky at atipa.com (Rocky McGaugh) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 14:48:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cAos] Centos-3 Kernel Updates In-Reply-To: <3FFDBF6B.3050304@saas.nsw.edu.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Roger Buck wrote: > I am trialling Centos-3 build4rc-0. > > Though not yet "production", the server is does have a 24x7 public > interface. > > What is the best way to deal with current/future kernel updates such as: > > http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/security/story/0,2000048600,20282396,00.htm > > Should I just DL a vanilla kernel from kernel.org. Do I need to do do > anything "special" to integrate vanilla kernel with Centos-3 .iso based > distro.? > > R. > Using a vanillia kernel from kernel.org is always an option, but then you will be giving up much of what makes this an 'Enterprise' distro. Once the release goes final, we will provide a yum repository with updates compiled from the source at updates.redhat.com -- Rocky McGaugh From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Jan 8 12:57:59 2004 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 12:57:59 -0800 Subject: [cAos] Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure (fwd) In-Reply-To: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D70@mailhost.trueposition.com> References: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D70@mailhost.trueposition.com> Message-ID: <20040108205759.GF1941@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Hedemark, Magnus (mhedemark at trueposition.com): > If your employer burdens you with the nine lines of disclaimer, and > you use the weak argument that so many top posters do of having a > lousy MUA enforced by the company (hey I'm using Outlook and can > manage to compose a decent reply).... Just FYI: Outlook sufferers should consider using this add-on, to make the process of proper quoting more transparent: http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/ There's also a version for Outlook Express: http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/ -- Cheers, "This is Unix. Stop acting so helpless." Rick Moen -- D.J. Bernstein rick at linuxmafia.com From lance at uklinux.net Thu Jan 8 13:27:55 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:27:55 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [cAos] Centos-3 Kernel Updates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Rocky McGaugh wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Roger Buck wrote: > > I am trialling Centos-3 build4rc-0. > > > > Though not yet "production", the server is does have a 24x7 public > > interface. > > > > What is the best way to deal with current/future kernel updates such as: > > > > http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/security/story/0,2000048600,20282396,00.htm > > > > Should I just DL a vanilla kernel from kernel.org. Do I need to do do > > anything "special" to integrate vanilla kernel with Centos-3 .iso based > > distro.? > > > > R. > > > > Using a vanillia kernel from kernel.org is always an option, but then you > will be giving up much of what makes this an 'Enterprise' distro. > > Once the release goes final, we will provide a yum repository with updates > compiled from the source at updates.redhat.com We already have that - just the kernel update hasnt been built yet ;) Regards Lance > > -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From herrold at owlriver.com Sat Jan 10 19:54:33 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 22:54:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Re: Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure (fwd) Message-ID: This reply was misdirected because of my prior post the the former runlevelzero mailman -- Russ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 05:36:42 -0500 From: Eric S. Raymond To: R P Herrold Cc: cAos mailing list Subject: Re: Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure R P Herrold : > Eric, on behalf of cAos (http://www.caosity.org/), I would > like to invite you to package and submit them all today, and > get them into caos-1 extras at once. Should be an intereting experience. > The process is easy: > - join the mailing list Which one? There seem to be about a dozen. > - set up an account Applied for... > - seek upload priv's (which will be granted forthwith) > - transfer in a SRPM > rsync @temple.caosity.org:: Ah, now this is why it's interesting. I'm in the throes of writing a program called 'shipper', a shipping agent for open-source releases. The idea is that you tell it about channels you want to release to, and it then does the mechanics of building RPMS, uploading, mailing notifications, posting announcements, etc, all driven by the contents of the project specfile. Push one button, your release gets shipped everywhere. Presently I have three kinds of channel defined; generic website, generic FTP site, mailing list. Also three kinds of hardwired or public channel -- ibiblio.org, redhat incoming, and freshmeat.net. Each channel type "knows" not just about a transport method but about what subset of the potential deliverables it wants -- for example, LSMs only go to ibiblio. Sounds like cAos will make a good testbed for a fourth generic channel type, an rsync channel that takes SRPMs only. -- Eric S. Raymond From rog at saas.nsw.edu.au Sun Jan 11 01:04:04 2004 From: rog at saas.nsw.edu.au (Roger Buck) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:04:04 +1100 Subject: [cAos] Bug Report Etiquette Question Message-ID: <40011184.4090508@saas.nsw.edu.au> What is the best procedure for reporting bugs where there is a known unresolved bug recorded in RedHat bugzilla that also currently affects Centos-3 distribution? For example, Centos-3 RC4 is subject to this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=109364 Apologies for the boring question(s) - just a beginner looking to do 'the right thing" in future :) R. From herrold at owlriver.com Sun Jan 11 15:10:41 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:10:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] Bug Report Etiquette Question In-Reply-To: <40011184.4090508@saas.nsw.edu.au> References: <40011184.4090508@saas.nsw.edu.au> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Roger Buck wrote: > What is the best procedure for reporting bugs where there is a known > unresolved bug recorded in RedHat bugzilla that also currently affects > Centos-3 distribution? > > For example, Centos-3 RC4 is subject to this: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=109364 > > Apologies for the boring question(s) - just a beginner looking to do > 'the right thing" in future :) Not boring -- The bug is 'upstream' (and in Fedora, although I assume it is in RHEL-3 from your statements.) My feeling is that for CentOS, functionality bugs that are for 'upstream' to fix. will have to be authoritatively fixed upstream, and as updates are released downstream, we will pick up the fix as we rebuild the SRPM. No harm in filing it, to add to the bugzilla knowledge, but make sure to reference the upstream Bugzilla URL, in the local Bugzilla URL field. On the receiving side, I think we would triage the bug to make sure the upstream reference was appropiate (or seemed to cover the case); Possibly also, we may decide to issue an asserted fix to an 'extras' archive pool [perhaps with a 'fork-' prefix to the name, to show] (to permit use of a yum archive update), with a versioned 'Provides' and versioned Obsoletes for the offending original package. This is to allow for a later authoritative fix to 'Obsolete' the fork- version away if/when the fix is issues by RH). [Frankly, I think the chances are pretty slim that RH _will_ address non-ethernet based networking tool fixes -- back in RHL 7.1 days, they seriously broke ppp against the MicroSoft clients, and I published a packagin ofthe only fix available until RHL 7.3; they have played with wvdial, ppp, neat, redhat-config-network, and so forth, and do not have a clear strategy on serial dataline support] Later, as a relevant update in fact may issue, it would be appropiate to issue an amendment to the initial fork- package under the same name with a later EVR, which 'Requires' the later version. This assumes that all relevant items are resolved in the later fix - obviously some care would need to be taken to ensure that all open and material items were addressed. -- Russ Herrold From mhedemark at trueposition.com Mon Jan 12 05:45:35 2004 From: mhedemark at trueposition.com (Hedemark, Magnus) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:45:35 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Re: Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submiss ion procedure (fwd) Message-ID: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D7E@mailhost.trueposition.com> ESR wrote: > Ah, now this is why it's interesting. I'm in the throes of writing a > program called 'shipper', a shipping agent for open-source releases. > The idea is that you tell it about channels you want to release to, > and it then does the mechanics of building RPMS, uploading, mailing > notifications, posting announcements, etc, all driven by the contents > of the project specfile. Push one button, your release gets shipped > everywhere. Assuming that "shipper" meets with the spirit of our social contract, I think that cAos would be a great proof of concept for this much needed tool. > Sounds like cAos will make a good testbed for a fourth generic channel > type, an rsync channel that takes SRPMs only. Well I think most of the channel types you talked about are cogent here. There has been some effort put into making the web site dynamic and it sounds like this would be a good way of automating some types of content updates on the web site, not to mention the mailing lists. Do you have any documentation yet on this project that we could digest? Magnus Hedemark Linux Network Admin TruePosition, Inc. Office 610-680-1133 FAX 610-680-1199 From herrold at owlriver.com Mon Jan 12 09:39:10 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:39:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] Re: Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submission procedure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, R P Herrold wrote: > This reply was misdirected because of my prior post the the > former runlevelzero mailman Eric, please note proper mailing list is a above. > > The process is easy: > > - join the mailing list > > Which one? There seem to be about a dozen. Most important is probably the first listed: http://caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > > - set up an account > > Applied for... which you did at: https://temple.caosity.org/ for those who look to follow your example > > - seek upload priv's (which will be granted forthwith) > > - transfer in a SRPM > > rsync @temple.caosity.org:: > > Ah, now this is why it's interesting. I'm in the throes of writing a > program called 'shipper', a shipping agent for open-source releases. > deliverables it wants -- for example, LSMs only go to ibiblio. > > Sounds like cAos will make a good testbed for a fourth generic channel > type, an rsync channel that takes SRPMs only. actually, rolling in LSM support is generally a 'Good Idea', as it carries much information, compactly. The 'trove' classification and location proposal did not get as much traction as it should have, but such is the way things are. The various web-baseed collaborative development sites -- BerliOS, Sourceforge, Savannah, et al, if having .lsm, and trove interchange, might make for a richer Open Source community; FreshMeat goes only so far. Anyway, automated upload by rsync seems very do-able. We'll accomodate as you need far end infrastructure. The last recommendation, and I warn you it is highly addictive, is to set up a proxybot like dircproxy, and an IRC client - I like irssi, as it is text based, and participate at: irc.freenode.net channel #caos or scan the logged content at: http://www.caosity.org/irclogs/ for the flavor. -- Russ Herrold From michael at ywow.org Mon Jan 12 09:46:20 2004 From: michael at ywow.org (MJang) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:46:20 -0500 Subject: [cAos] cAos-3 References: Message-ID: <018501c3d933$fd61f240$201ea8c0@example.com> Folks, I like what I see from the cAos-3 RC. So far it comes through my basic tests fine. I don't see any notes on the site explaining a few things - so I have a couple of questions - 1) During the install process, things still seem a bit incomplete - no release notes - and there's the screen where you have to choose between "personal desktop, workstation, server, and custom" - which I think is an outgrowth of RHL 9, but not a part of my RHEL 3 ES installation. (is there an errata or a bugzilla for cAos?) 2) I can't find any schedule notes for cAos-3. It does seem nearly ready. Thanks, Mike From herrold at owlriver.com Mon Jan 12 10:40:31 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:40:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] cAos-3 In-Reply-To: <018501c3d933$fd61f240$201ea8c0@example.com> References: <018501c3d933$fd61f240$201ea8c0@example.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, MJang wrote: > Folks, > > I like what I see from the cAos-3 RC. So far it comes through my basic tests fine. I don't see any notes on the site explaining a > few things - so I have a couple of questions - > > 1) During the install process, things still seem a bit incomplete - no release notes - and there's the screen where you have to > choose between "personal desktop, workstation, server, and custom" - which I think is an outgrowth of RHL 9, but not a part of my > RHEL 3 ES installation. (is there an errata or a bugzilla for cAos? don't know -- will check if you file a Bugzilla agaisnt the Centos-3 core component or anaconda please > 2) I can't find any schedule notes for cAos-3. It does seem nearly ready. it is nearly cooked -- a build of RC5 awaits my solveoing some local hardware issues on a buildbox, adn some release scripting. FYI, there is also a centos-devel ML. Thank you for the report. -- Russ Herrold From n3npq at nc.rr.com Mon Jan 12 13:12:26 2004 From: n3npq at nc.rr.com (Jeff Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:12:26 -0500 Subject: [cAos] [Fwd: PDR -- Package development repostory to replace SRPM's?] Message-ID: <40030DBA.7020202@nc.rr.com> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Jeff Johnson Subject: PDR -- Package development repostory to replace SRPM's? Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:59:56 -0400 Size: 5924 Url: http://lists.infiscale.org/pipermail/caos/attachments/20040112/47e7d41f/attachment.mht From esr at thyrsus.com Mon Jan 12 08:19:38 2004 From: esr at thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:19:38 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Re: Invitation to ESR Re: fedora-d-rh] Re: RPM submiss ion procedure (fwd) In-Reply-To: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D7E@mailhost.trueposition.com> References: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D7E@mailhost.trueposition.com> Message-ID: <20040112161938.GA6858@thyrsus.com> Hedemark, Magnus : > Do you have any documentation yet on this project that we could digest? I released an alpha two days ago. HTML manpage is at: http://www.catb.org/esr/shipper/shipper.html -- Eric S. Raymond From herrold at swampfox.owlriver.com Mon Jan 12 13:17:44 2004 From: herrold at swampfox.owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:17:44 -0500 Subject: [cAos] getting to sparce, somewhat reproduceable builds Message-ID: <200401122117.i0CLHio25773@swampfox.owlriver.com> HTML dump on Mon Jan 12 16:17:43 EST 2004 http://www.owlriver.com/projects/packaging/reproduceable-builds.txt >From herrold at owlriver.com Tue Feb 18 10:04:34 2003 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:11:47 -0500 (EST) From: R P Herrold Reply-To: rpm-list at redhat.com To: RPM list Subject: rh-rpm] Reproducible builds; was: Re: RPM's that fail in %post... On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Jeff Johnson wrote: > FWIW, there are 2 big lies in rpm: > 1) reproducible builds. > > #1 is true iff one knows how to set up a build environment. This one is interesting to me -- the iff -- 'one knows how to set up a build environment' -- is not a well documented matter, and outside of the scope of day-to-day RPM usage. The discussion between Jim Knoble and Jeff Johnson last week got me thinking too. The perspective of Jim and his clientele, and Jeff at Red Hat, but also Jeff building the future RPM, and Jeff supporting the community of RPM users on non-RHL distributions, represent at least four competing constituencies. I am certain there are more views. And so the topic of how 'one knows' the _right_ "build environment" is not outside the scope of RPM generally. trpm is a tool, esentially without comments or usage notes, which JBJ has remarked on a couple of times on the list that he uses for build testing. I've worked through trying to divine the whole picture, and am not satisfied with my answers. IANAHNBARHE. More broadly, in reviewing Changelogs and specfiles, it appears that Red Hat corporate uses an internal role account, probably automated, probably also 'fed' with guidance and suggests for rebuild requests, called 'prospector' to perform routine updateing and first draft builds. Other tools like the perl packager approaches in the CPAN port back at RHL 7.1, and later exist as well. The Red Hat builder farm system manager seems to be called 'beehive'. See: http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/redhat/8.0/i386/xscreensaver-4.05-6.i386.html "* Wed Jul 17 2002 Elliot Lee 4.05-2 - Add fortune-mod to buildprereq to make beehive happy - Fix find_lang usage - install translations properly by specifying datadir" "* Thu Jul 13 2000 Prospector - automatic rebuild" It is not uncommon in the industry to perform periodic, continuous incremental, or nightly 'make world' rebuilds -- the Mozilla project has documented and implemented this nicely. The _Deathmarch_ book documented this at MicroSoft as well. Periodically, new SRPM and RPM versions appear at Raw Hide -- if one maintains a mirror of Raw Hide, as I have since it started in 1998, and study the daily updated packages, one can infer parts of the near future. Less often, new Red Hat point releases, or even new major releases appear. =============== Clearly, a packager and a builder gets different results, depending on whether certain -devel libraries are present -- autoconf will find or notice absence of a given library header, and if present build one way or another. Manually specified 'Buildrequires' can "force" the presence of a given -devel package (unless one chooses to amend the .specfile). Options passed to autoconf within a .specfile can vary this further. I have filed RFE's to make express BuildRequirements into the RH Bugzilla from time to time, and sometimes they are accepted, other times not. The policy seems to vary by package maintainer at Red Hat. .... and so the questions I have are: 1. What 'know how' and practice do Red Hat, and others follow as to setting up a 'repeatable' build environment? My answer is: I build from SRPM, on both an automated 'make world' type basis, and also manually, by and large, on a group of hosts which I try to leave as a 'basic install with all updates' host, at the end of each Red Hat Major Release. Somw of that fruit end up at: ftp://ftp.owlriver.com/pub/local/ORC/ But I do NOT go back after solveing Build Requirements either manually or with my autobuilder, and REMOVE added packages or versions -- so over time, my build environment contains later packages than a fresh install with all updates. This caused some pain to 'autorpm' at version 2, which Kirk Bauer's understanding of readline variations and mine in RHL 7.x varied. It caused RPMs built on my build hosts to not install on RHL 7.0 and 7.1 hosts, without the target hosts applying some updates first. In a perfect world, one would have a networked kickstart installer build an absolute fresh host for every compile, apply all the updates to current, and then attempt a build, and solve (on an automated basis, of course) the build requirements, adding just the minimum packages required to satisfy the .spec file mandates, and the rpmbuild process minimum path. I'd like to do that, but ... not today. I'm working on it. What do other list members do? and second question, which is more to JBJ: 2) Is there a cheatsheat or set of common forms used with trpm which we might see? -- Russ Herrold _______________________________________________ Rpm-list mailing list Rpm-list at redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list From mej at kainx.org Mon Jan 12 13:57:18 2004 From: mej at kainx.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:57:18 -0500 Subject: [cAos] getting to sparce, somewhat reproduceable builds In-Reply-To: <200401122117.i0CLHio25773@swampfox.owlriver.com> References: <200401122117.i0CLHio25773@swampfox.owlriver.com> Message-ID: <20040112215718.GE25068@kainx.org> On Monday, 12 January 2004, at 16:17:44 (-0500), R P Herrold wrote: > I'd like to do that, but ... not today. I'm working on it. > > What do other list members do? The current version of Mezzanine, which is presently rebuilding the entire cAos repository from nothing but a directory of SRPM's, is doing the following: 1. A directory of sources is specified on the command line. Mezzanine reads through this directory and auto-generated "product file" entries for each package, basically creating a list of packages and various properties thereof. 2. A pristine chroot source is identified, currently via an environment variable, for which Mezzanine automatically generates initialization (create the jail), reset (to pristine condition), and copy (duplication) commands. 3. For a single-thread build, the chroot jail is initialized with the "init" command. The first package is built. The "reset" command is used prior to each subsequent package build to reset the build environment to its pristine state. 4. The chosen hint (package/dep) installer, specified via command line or environment variable, is used to install all build dependencies and hints into the chroot jail prior to building the package. Thus, the package is forced to build on exactly what the system says, no more, no less. Hints may be specified via command line or env var also, either by a single file or by a directory with filenames equal to package names. 5. Built packages, as is true with all Mezzanine packages, are copied into zero or more target locations based on the value of the LOCATIONS package/product variable (default is $MEZZANINE_BUILDDIR). HTH, Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Follow me; everything is alright. I'll be the one to tuck you in at night. And if you want to leave, I can guarantee you won't find nobody else like me." -- Uncle Kracker, "Follow Me" From herrold at owlriver.com Mon Jan 12 14:10:25 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:10:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] RFC: top down on QA Message-ID: I have watched the approach to QA by the old Fedora, and the new Fedora, and some concern at the lack of willingness to proceed from a high level overview of design principles and Requirements, through a set of design goals and objectives, on to a implementation strategy, and the tactics and specific methods to get there. That is, a 'roadmap' of goals defining where distribution QA is going, and items to make sure are covered along the way, seems to me, to be fluid and not well stated. There was a provoking post by Michael Johnson this afternoon, on fedora-devel-list at redhat.com. The RH digester has not indexed it yet, but his last prior post was at: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-January/msg00659.html (which also makes an interesting read) He ran through RH QA overview, and said in part: > There are many levels of QA. We don't have to have the same kind of rules > for QA that, say, a proprietary software company does. I think that package > QA is primarily to make sure that the packaging has not been screwed up, > and secondarily to look for faults in the software itself. > > There will always be bugs. The point isn't to get rid of all bugs before > declaring the software usable. The point is to avoid disaster while > keeping up with the amazing development speed of open source software.... > Open source gives us a better opportunity to fix bugs without waiting > through a whole cycle. It formerly was that RH would issue both security and functionality updates asynchronously to a point release; then it became that they would issue functionality updates at the end of a point release and immediately before the next point release (and security updates asynchronously, as exploits appeared). Then the functionality updates stopped. Of course the support tail was shortened for RHL, and a year later the product line ended, as focus on the RHEL line has become the RH mainline product. From observation, there is a quarterly cycle to functionality updates in RHAS/RHEL, and one assumes a continued asynchronous release pattern for security matters. The cAos and CentOS models really are tuned to a different pattern. I answered a question on a functionality bug on centos-devel yesterday, and thought I should formalize some of my take on the prior understandings, conference calls, IRC, and some off-list discussions. I have placed a copy of the following at: http://www.herrold.com/caos/QA-requirements.txt and will update it as I see consensus emerge. I also copy the current version into the ML. --------------- HTML dump on Mon Jan 12 17:06:31 EST 2004 http://www.herrold.com/caos/QA-requirements.txt cAos principles and QA goals - a top-level outline 1. We will not infringe the encumbered intellectual property of others. 2. We strongly strive for base content free of exploits or security matters (either in the cAos internal build phase, and from trojaned content). 3. We strongly strive to provide updates for discovered exploits or security matters in a timely fashion. 4. We stay within a glibc and RPM level ABI - when compatibility cannot be maintained to satisfy the foregoing for 'core' or 'base' packages, a new caos-release lead version will be created. Several caos-releases may be active, for differing glibc, RPM and kernel tuples. 5. We seek agility and functionality to stay near stable upstream released packages. Such packages will first appear in the cAos 'Crazy' archive. 6. As a package is confirmed to work, and appears to be free of exploit, it will be 'certified' and GPG signed, and promoted into the 'Certified' archive. 7. A minimum archive also exists, called 'Chilled'. It contains a subset of 'Certified' which are without unresolved security matters, sufficient to provide a base system, and still 'strong' enough to be 'self-hosting' and to build all Daemon services and some Application layer packages. 8. When a package is retired from 'Certified' due to an un-solveable security matter, it is moved to the 'Coffin' and removed from 'Chilled' if it was present. When 'Chilled' can no longer satisfy the 'self-hosting' criteria, the caos-release will no longer be supported. 9. A caos-release may also be 'retired' from maintenance when a critical mass of maintainers no longer exists. CentOS principles and QA goals 1. We will not infringe the encumbered intellectual property of others. 2. Within the mainline base release and updates, we will simply rebuild without enhancement. 3. Forked fixpacks _may_ be issued, but this is largely not expected, and feature fixes will be largely left to the upstream maintainer. A 'Forked' update may represent a non-official security or functionality package, but is maintained in a separate archive and will NOT be accessible to a conventional base and update yum update, to avoid 'polluting' a host with a fork, absent conscious intent. 4. An Extras archive may exist, and will primarily consist of packages from cAos 'Certified' content. ---------------- Comment of this document is welcome; please direct it to: info at owlriver.com ---------------- Initial - RPH - 040112 Rev: RPH - 040112 - cooler/coffin fix laptop:~/caos/QA-requirements.txt external: http://www.herrold.com/caos/QA-requirements.txt ---------------- -- Russ Herrold From herrold at owlriver.com Mon Jan 12 23:44:23 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:44:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] fun screenshot - xawtv and xfce4 on caos-1 Message-ID: http://www.herrold.com/xawtv-caos.jpg -- Russ Herrold From m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl Tue Jan 13 01:56:53 2004 From: m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl (m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:56:53 +0100 Subject: [cAos] fun screenshot - xawtv and xfce4 on caos-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1073987813.4003c0e54427b@datadevil.demon.nl> Quoting R P Herrold : > http://www.herrold.com/xawtv-caos.jpg kool, konsole in it :-P Maarten From mhedemark at trueposition.com Tue Jan 13 05:54:52 2004 From: mhedemark at trueposition.com (Hedemark, Magnus) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:54:52 -0500 Subject: [cAos] RFC: top down on QA Message-ID: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D90@mailhost.trueposition.com> R P Herrold wrote: > 4. We stay within a glibc and RPM level ABI - when > compatibility cannot be maintained to satisfy the foregoing for > 'core' or 'base' packages, a new caos-release lead version will be > created. Several caos-releases may be active, for differing glibc, > RPM and kernel tuples. This reads as something that can become very complex, and IMHO could get out of hand if followed as written. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. In any case this bullet perhaps deserves closer scrutiny. > 8. When a package is retired from 'Certified' due to an > un-solveable security matter, it is moved to the 'Coffin' and removed > from 'Chilled' if it was present. When 'Chilled' can no > longer satisfy > the 'self-hosting' criteria, the caos-release will no longer > be supported. IMHO, the repository names are going to be confusing as they deviate too far from the paradigms that Linux users are accustomed to. We're all familiar with the concepts of "testing", "unstable" and "stable" in package repositories. Maybe you add to that "retired" instead of "coffin". > CentOS principles and QA goals [snip] > 2. Within the mainline base release and updates, we > will simply > rebuild without enhancement. I think it is important to clarify here that CentOS is simply rebuilding from Red Hat provided SRPM's and not doing much of our own custom packaging, except to abide by bullet #1. > 4. An Extras archive may exist, and will primarily consist of > packages from cAos 'Certified' content. Probably safe to s/may/will/ Magnus Hedemark Linux Network Admin TruePosition, Inc. Office 610-680-1133 FAX 610-680-1199 From herrold at owlriver.com Tue Jan 13 07:28:11 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:28:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] fun screenshot - xawtv and xfce4 on caos-1 In-Reply-To: <1073987813.4003c0e54427b@datadevil.demon.nl> References: <1073987813.4003c0e54427b@datadevil.demon.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl wrote: > Quoting R P Herrold : > > > http://www.herrold.com/xawtv-caos.jpg > > kool, konsole in it :-P why yes -- I touchtype 2 konsoles per panel, with multiple windows per instance. No one noticed the uname on this one on xfce list: http://www.herrold.com/caos-xfce4-800-600.jpg - R From mej at kainx.org Tue Jan 13 07:34:45 2004 From: mej at kainx.org (Michael Jennings) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:34:45 -0500 Subject: [cAos] fun screenshot - xawtv and xfce4 on caos-1 In-Reply-To: <1073987813.4003c0e54427b@datadevil.demon.nl> References: <1073987813.4003c0e54427b@datadevil.demon.nl> Message-ID: <20040113153445.GJ25068@kainx.org> On Tuesday, 13 January 2004, at 10:56:53 (+0100), m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl wrote: > > http://www.herrold.com/xawtv-caos.jpg > > kool, konsole in it :-P :-( Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender." -- G'Kar, Babylon 5 From herrold at owlriver.com Tue Jan 13 09:42:29 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:42:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Enrico analysis -- The current fedora.us buildsystem and future directions (fwd) Message-ID: This report was requested on the IRC channel -- Enrico's memo is well written and pretty comprehensive - Russ Herrold ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:31:07 +0100 From: Enrico Scholz Reply-To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com Subject: The current fedora.us buildsystem and future directions Hello, the Fedora Project will need a buildsystem which features[1]: Process separation: it MUST be impossible to kill or ptrace processes of other buildroots or of the system. Hiding of foreign processes SHOULD be provided. Device/kernel protection: Direct hardware access through /dev/* entries or modification of kernel parameters through /proc MUST be impossible. Forbidding the creation of such special files is one way to reach it, access restriction another one. Unbreakable chroots: it MUST be impossible for a process in a buildroot to have any kind of access on objects of the systems (e.g. ssh-keys), or write-access on other buildroots. No buildroot-reusing: each build MUST happen in an environment which can not be influenced by previous builds in this environment. This includes both filesystem-objects, and processes. Resource-restrictions: excessive resource-usage (memory, diskspace,...) of a build SHOULD be prevented. Usage of certain resources (e.g. network) MUST be prohibited Good performance: the buildsystem SHOULD should have only a small or non-existing impact on the performance. Working environment: building of common packages MUST succeed. This requires certain /dev entries, and a mounted /proc filesystem at least. Mature userinterface: the system SHOULD assist the buildmaster and automate the most tasks, so that the spent time will be reduced to a minimum. The reasons for these items and how they are solved in the current fedora.us buildsystem are described in http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~ensc/fedora.us-build/html [HTML], respectively http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~ensc/fedora.us-build/files/buildsystem.pdf [PDF, 204 KiB] The described buildsystem is in use for a short time only, but it seems to be secure and to work well (it was used in the rh9* -> fc1 mass-rebuild for the most packages). There were some cases which needed manual intervention (e.g. manual disttags), but these were exceptions. A core part is a vserver[2] capable kernel. Unfortunately, it is not ported to the kernels which are shipped with Fedora yet, and chances are only low that it comes into the official 2.6 kernel. Since Red Hat wants a selfhosting buildsystem, alternatives must be investigated. SELinux offers interesting features, but it is new and there are lot of open questions[3]: 1. SELinux can protect foreign processes. But is it possible to hide them in /proc also? 2. Is chroot(2) implemented in a safe manner? Or, can parent directories of build-roots be protected with SELinux policies? Is a safe chroot(2) required at all? 3. What is the performance impact of the policy checking? 4. How can disk/memory usage restricted with SELinux? Would CKRM be an option? 5. Can special mount-operations (e.g. /proc filesystem) be allowed by the policy, or does this require userspace helper also? 6. Setup of an SELinux policy seems to be very complicated. How possible are holes in a setup? It would be nice when an SELinux expert could take a look at this questions and how it can be used in the buildsystem. UML might be another option, but its status (chances to come into official 2.6) and performance impact is not clear. Enrico Footnotes: [1] http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~ensc/fedora.us-build/html/index.html#id2503177 [2] http://linux-vserver.org [3] http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~ensc/fedora.us-build/html/ar01s02.html#sec:components:selinux From jim at rossberry.com Tue Jan 13 10:32:12 2004 From: jim at rossberry.com (Jim Wildman) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:32:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] RFC: top down on QA In-Reply-To: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D90@mailhost.trueposition.com> References: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514D90@mailhost.trueposition.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Hedemark, Magnus wrote: > R P Herrold wrote: > > > 4. We stay within a glibc and RPM level ABI - when > > compatibility cannot be maintained to satisfy the foregoing for > > 'core' or 'base' packages, a new caos-release lead version will be > > created. Several caos-releases may be active, for differing glibc, > > RPM and kernel tuples. > > This reads as something that can become very complex, and IMHO could get out > of hand if followed as written. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. In any case > this bullet perhaps deserves closer scrutiny. I agree that it could get complicated, but I like Russ's idea for when to create new lead versions. After all the discussions on kernel versions, rpm versions and glibc versions it is very apparent that one size does not fit all and that there will need to be different groupings for different folks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE jim at rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com From johnnycobol at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 19:47:17 2004 From: johnnycobol at yahoo.com (John Hopkins) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:47:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cAos] Re: repository names In-Reply-To: <20040114120001.17723.85670.Mailman@caosity.caosity.org> Message-ID: <20040116034717.51752.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> >> 8. When a package is retired from 'Certified' due to an >> un-solveable security matter, it is moved to the 'Coffin' and removed >> from 'Chilled' if it was present. When 'Chilled' can no >> longer satisfy >> the 'self-hosting' criteria, the caos-release will no longer >> be supported. > > IMHO, the repository names are going to be confusing as they deviate > too far from the paradigms that Linux users are accustomed to. We're > all familiar with the concepts of "testing", "unstable" and "stable" > in package repositories. Maybe you add to that "retired" instead of > "coffin". I agree, but would also submit that something more self-explanatory than "testing" could be used. ie. how does 'testing' compare with 'stable' and 'unstable'? Is a stable build being tested, or is an unstable build being tested? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus From mhedemark at trueposition.com Fri Jan 16 04:48:33 2004 From: mhedemark at trueposition.com (Hedemark, Magnus) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:48:33 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Re: repository names Message-ID: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514DC4@mailhost.trueposition.com> John Hopkins wrote: > I agree, but would also submit that something more > self-explanatory than "testing" could be used. ie. > how does 'testing' compare with 'stable' and > 'unstable'? Is a stable build being tested, or is an unstable build > being tested? If this were the first time such a scheme were used, I'd agree, it could use fine tuning. But it's pretty well established in the Linux community now, and I think that anyone who might venture into "testing" would be familiar with the concept if we use it the way that it is used in other distributions. Magnus Hedemark Linux Network Admin TruePosition, Inc. Office 610-680-1133 FAX 610-680-1199 From greg at runlevelzero.net Tue Jan 20 14:27:49 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:27:49 -0800 Subject: [cAos] linuxquestions.org support forum... Message-ID: <20040120222749.GA23049@runlevelzero.net> Is there anyone interested in watching a caos support forum at linuxquestions? Basically you would just answer questions posted to the forum when they arise (or point them in the right direction). This is a good opportunity to spread the word about cAos, and to help users get involved. Email me if you are interested... -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From lance at uklinux.net Wed Jan 21 06:31:33 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:31:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [cAos] test message Message-ID: test message -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From lance at uklinux.net Wed Jan 21 06:35:12 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:35:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [cAos] Migration to new server Message-ID: The caos website, bugzilla, mail server and mailman have now been migrated to a new server, with better bandwidth. I have tested as much as possible but there may be odd things that dont work so please bugzilla any strangeness, or email if bugzilla is problematical. Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From cyeoh at samba.org Wed Jan 21 18:29:44 2004 From: cyeoh at samba.org (Christopher Yeoh) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:29:44 +1100 Subject: [cAos] LSB Beta Testing of Test Suites Message-ID: <16399.13720.534546.272531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Hi, Is anyone interested in being involved with the LSB Beta Testing program? This involves running beta versions of upcoming LSB test suites and sending back feedback about results as well as helping working out the cause of test failures. The advantage for cAos getting involved in the beta program is that during this time the test suite developers are more actively involved in working through failures with the distributions invovled. Obviously it also means a lot less last minute work too if cAos wants to go down the certification route. Chris -- cyeoh at au.ibm.com IBM OzLabs Linux Development Group Canberra, Australia From greg at runlevelzero.net Wed Jan 21 22:31:55 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:31:55 -0800 Subject: [cAos] LSB Beta Testing of Test Suites In-Reply-To: <16399.13720.534546.272531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16399.13720.534546.272531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040122063155.GA2531@runlevelzero.net> Chris, thanks for offer! Volunteers please... There have been many people ask what they can do aside from core development, and this is a great place to volunteer. This role will not take a guru level engineer, and will give someone the opportunity to collaborate with some of the LSB developers as well as help the cAos project. Please contact both Chris and I if you are interested. On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 01:29:44PM +1100, Christopher Yeoh told me: > Hi, > > Is anyone interested in being involved with the LSB Beta Testing > program? This involves running beta versions of upcoming LSB test > suites and sending back feedback about results as well as helping > working out the cause of test failures. > > The advantage for cAos getting involved in the beta program is that > during this time the test suite developers are more actively involved > in working through failures with the distributions invovled. Obviously > it also means a lot less last minute work too if cAos wants to go down > the certification route. > > Chris > -- > cyeoh at au.ibm.com > IBM OzLabs Linux Development Group > Canberra, Australia > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From greg at runlevelzero.net Wed Jan 21 22:55:28 2004 From: greg at runlevelzero.net (Greg Kurtzer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:55:28 -0800 Subject: [cAos] cAos status... Message-ID: <20040122065528.GB2531@runlevelzero.net> cAos-1.0 pending release is upon us! Some of the many landmarks that have been completed: - package maintainers are actively maintaining packages - auto build system can build entire OS - package QA system is online and ready for use - web site maintainer has volunteered (Thanks Christopher White)! - installation docs have been posted and tested (Thanks Troy Johnson) - major bugs in cinch have been resolved - website has been migrated to a faster pipe - bugzilla is live and actively maintained - core OS has been tested and is stable etc... Stay tuned for the 1.0 release! Greg -- Greg M. Kurtzer http://runlevelzero.net/ http://caosity.org/ http://warewulf-cluster.org/ From Matthew.Bond at gahanna.gov Thu Jan 22 13:54:43 2004 From: Matthew.Bond at gahanna.gov (Matthew Bond) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:54:43 -0500 Subject: [cAos] cAos or CentOS? Message-ID: <79E1508694A19E4FA27CE33431A53CEBC091B1@be-01.gahanna.gov> Hello all, This is my first time posting on the list and I have a question of which distro to use. I'm going to be switching from Windows XP to use a linux platform. I have downloaded CentOS and installed it as a virtual machine and it seems solid and is Redhat like which I have some familiarity with. But I believe that CentOS is based off of Redhat Enterprise edition, and I want to know some of your opinions on weather I should be using CentOS or cAos if I am just running a personal desktop. I am going to run it on a P4 2.4Ghz with at least 512mb Ram. I have an ati all-in-wonder 8500dv card which I use mainly for Tv_out purposes to play DVD's or video files. I know I won't have any problem with sound or lan configurations. If people can share their opinions on what route I should go that would be much appreciated. Matthew Bond Network Technician (614) 342-4072 matthew.bond at gahanna.gov From herrold at owlriver.com Thu Jan 22 22:57:51 2004 From: herrold at owlriver.com (R P Herrold) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 01:57:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Re: cAos] LSB Beta Testing of Test Suites In-Reply-To: <16399.13720.534546.272531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <16399.13720.534546.272531@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Christopher Yeoh wrote: > Hi, > > Is anyone interested in being involved with the LSB Beta Testing > program? This involves running beta versions of upcoming LSB test > suites and sending back feedback about results as well as helping > working out the cause of test failures. I have followed the area for years, published one of the first LUG transcripts of Stuart Anderson at: http://www.owlriver.com/projects/SLUG/ from a 1999 presentation; and have held an open tracking bug in the Bugzilla on the matter. -- Russ Herrold From m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl Fri Jan 23 01:38:15 2004 From: m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl (m.stolte at datadevil.demon.nl) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:38:15 +0100 Subject: [cAos] cAos or CentOS? In-Reply-To: <79E1508694A19E4FA27CE33431A53CEBC091B1@be-01.gahanna.gov> References: <79E1508694A19E4FA27CE33431A53CEBC091B1@be-01.gahanna.gov> Message-ID: <1074850695.4010eb8756d2f@datadevil.demon.nl> Hi Matthew, it is very hard to answer this fully. Yes, CentOS is a clone of RHEL. We have version 2 and 3 cloned. If you read the specs of them on www.redhat.com, you might be able to decide if it is a good distro for you. cAos on the other hand is atm. based on the core of rhel 2, but has alot of up to date packages around that core, like a very new gnome and kde. I like and use both CentOS and cAos, both for different purposes, which I can explain, but on which people certainly will differ of opinion.. I hope i at least was somewhat helpful, Maarten Quoting Matthew Bond : > Hello all, > This is my first time posting on the list and I have a question > of which distro to use. I'm going to be switching from Windows XP to use > a linux platform. I have downloaded CentOS and installed it as a virtual > machine and it seems solid and is Redhat like which I have some > familiarity with. But I believe that CentOS is based off of Redhat > Enterprise edition, and I want to know some of your opinions on weather > I should be using CentOS or cAos if I am just running a personal > desktop. I am going to run it on a P4 2.4Ghz with at least 512mb Ram. I > have an ati all-in-wonder 8500dv card which I use mainly for Tv_out > purposes to play DVD's or video files. I know I won't have any problem > with sound or lan configurations. If people can share their opinions on > what route I should go that would be much appreciated. > > Matthew Bond > Network Technician > (614) 342-4072 > matthew.bond at gahanna.gov > > > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > From michael at ywow.org Mon Jan 26 10:33:14 2004 From: michael at ywow.org (MJang) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:33:14 -0500 Subject: [cAos] RHEL 3 Quarterly Update Message-ID: <00e601c3e43a$df149510$201ea8c0@example.com> Folks, Wondering what folks (cAos, whitebox, taolinux) have in mind, now that RHEL 3 has released its first quarterly update. Seems like a substantial number of packages. I guess there are three straightforward options: 1) Revise the reubuilt ISOs 2) Create a new "update" ISO 3) Set up yum type repositories I don't see the updates on the source RPM FTP servers, nor do I see a list of packages that were updated on a public source. I hope I've missed something; otherwise, I fear this would be a roadblock to the rebuild efforts. Thanks, Mike From ahodgson at simkin.ca Mon Jan 26 10:58:18 2004 From: ahodgson at simkin.ca (Alan Hodgson) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:58:18 -0800 Subject: [cAos] RHEL 3 Quarterly Update In-Reply-To: <00e601c3e43a$df149510$201ea8c0@example.com> References: <00e601c3e43a$df149510$201ea8c0@example.com> Message-ID: <20040126185818.GA1939@simkin.ca> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 01:33:14PM -0500, MJang wrote: > I don't see the updates on the source RPM FTP servers, nor do I see a list of > packages that were updated on a public source. I hope I've missed something; > otherwise, I fear this would be a roadblock to the rebuild efforts. > Are they not included in the updates at ftp://updates.redhat.com/enterprise/3??/en/os/SRPMS/ ? There seem to be a fair number of updates there. -- "Windows XP is the most reliable Windows ever. To me, this is like saying that asparagus is ``the most articulate vegetable ever.'' But still, I am tempted." - Dave Barry From lance at uklinux.net Mon Jan 26 11:13:36 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 19:13:36 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [cAos] RHEL 3 Quarterly Update In-Reply-To: <00e601c3e43a$df149510$201ea8c0@example.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, MJang wrote: > Folks, > > Wondering what folks (cAos, whitebox, taolinux) have in mind, now that RHEL 3 has released its first quarterly update. Seems like a > substantial number of packages. > > I guess there are three straightforward options: > > 1) Revise the reubuilt ISOs > 2) Create a new "update" ISO > 3) Set up yum type repositories > > I don't see the updates on the source RPM FTP servers, nor do I see a list of packages that were updated on a public source. I hope > I've missed something; otherwise, I fear this would be a roadblock to the rebuild efforts. Most of the updates are now built at http://mirror.centos.org/build4/updates We will likely produce two sets of isos, the original set, and a set based on the updates. Regards Lance > > Thanks, > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos > -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From michael at ywow.org Mon Jan 26 11:30:31 2004 From: michael at ywow.org (MJang) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:30:31 -0500 Subject: [cAos] RHEL 3 Quarterly Update References: Message-ID: <001901c3e442$dd020f20$201ea8c0@example.com> Dear Lance, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lance Davis" > > Most of the updates are now built at > http://mirror.centos.org/build4/updates > > We will likely produce two sets of isos, the original set, and a set based > on the updates. That's good info, thank you. Looks like the update is dated today (slightly different link - http://mirror.centos.org/centos-3/build4/updates/). I hope someone can make a note to this effect on the caosity.org home page sometime in the near future - with a note pointing to the correct directory (there are different /updates directories in the tree). Thanks, Mike From ras1 at jamrockmusic.com Mon Jan 26 12:03:53 2004 From: ras1 at jamrockmusic.com (Jesse) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:03:53 -0800 Subject: [cAos] RHEL 3 Quarterly Update In-Reply-To: <001901c3e442$dd020f20$201ea8c0@example.com> References: <001901c3e442$dd020f20$201ea8c0@example.com> Message-ID: <1075147433.3343.23.camel@bill.jamrockmusic.com> On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 11:30, MJang wrote: > Dear Lance, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lance Davis" > > > > Most of the updates are now built at > > http://mirror.centos.org/build4/updates Looks like most of the updates are there now, but the /headers dir needs to be rebuilt for yum to work... --jesse From lance at uklinux.net Mon Jan 26 14:46:21 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:46:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [cAos] RHEL 3 Quarterly Update In-Reply-To: <1075147433.3343.23.camel@bill.jamrockmusic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Jesse wrote: > On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 11:30, MJang wrote: > > Dear Lance, > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lance Davis" > > > > > > Most of the updates are now built at > > > http://mirror.centos.org/build4/updates > > Looks like most of the updates are there now, but the /headers dir needs > to be rebuilt for yum to work... Yes - its still a 'work in progress' Regards Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From lance at uklinux.net Mon Jan 26 15:15:15 2004 From: lance at uklinux.net (Lance Davis) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:15:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [cAos] RHEL 3 Quarterly Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Lance Davis wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Jesse wrote: > > > On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 11:30, MJang wrote: > > > Dear Lance, > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Lance Davis" > > > > > > > > Most of the updates are now built at > > > > http://mirror.centos.org/build4/updates > > > > Looks like most of the updates are there now, but the /headers dir needs > > to be rebuilt for yum to work... > > Yes - its still a 'work in progress' rsynced a few more - and headers dir is now updated. http://mirror.centos.org/centos-3/build4/updates just got a couple more bastards^H^H^H^H^H^Hpackages to build Regards Lance -- uklinux.net - The ISP of choice for the discerning Linux user. From geffrey at netfids.com Thu Jan 29 13:53:22 2004 From: geffrey at netfids.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Geffrey_Vel=E1squez?=) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:53:22 -0500 Subject: [cAos] Boot Disk CentOS 3 Message-ID: <401980D2.6010205@netfids.com> Hi friends, I have CentOS 3 xxxx Yesterday I created a floppy boot disk, with this image: bootdisk.img When the bootdisk is loading, it fails with the next message: Loading vmlinuz Loading initrd.img Ready. Uncompressing Linux ... ran out of input data --System Halted That was booting a server with an adaptec scsi controller. And booting a simple PC: Loading vmlinuz Loading initrd.img Ready. Uncompressing Linux ... invalid compressed format (err=1) --System Halted What could be the problem? Regards, Geffrey Velasquez From rog at saas.nsw.edu.au Thu Jan 29 15:07:13 2004 From: rog at saas.nsw.edu.au (Roger Buck) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:07:13 +1100 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Boot Disk CentOS 3 In-Reply-To: <401980D2.6010205@netfids.com> References: <401980D2.6010205@netfids.com> Message-ID: <401992AE.7010500@saas.nsw.edu.au> Geffrey Vel?squez wrote: > Hi friends, I have CentOS 3 xxxx > Yesterday I created a floppy boot disk, with this image: bootdisk.img > When the bootdisk is loading, it fails with the next message: [--snip--] > > invalid compressed format (err=1) > > --System Halted > > What could be the problem? I have seen this before, including when the kernel image is missing from the fdd, when DOS drivers have been loaded ahead of the image, faulty RAM and when the image is "too big" for the fdd/hdd partition. If you want to try a quick alternative, try loadlin v 1.6c or later: http://elserv.ffm.fgan.de/~lermen/ R. From charlieb-caos at budge.apana.org.au Thu Jan 29 15:19:36 2004 From: charlieb-caos at budge.apana.org.au (Charlie Brady) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:19:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cAos] Boot Disk CentOS 3 In-Reply-To: <401980D2.6010205@netfids.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, [ISO-8859-1] Geffrey Vel?squez wrote: > Hi friends, I have CentOS 3 xxxx > Yesterday I created a floppy boot disk, with this image: bootdisk.img > > When the bootdisk is loading, it fails with the next message: > > Loading vmlinuz > Loading initrd.img > Ready. > > Uncompressing Linux ... > > ran out of input data > > --System Halted ... > What could be the problem? Most likely a faulty floppy disk. Floppy disks need to be freshly formatted and 100% verified. Could also be bad RAM, but I'd go for the floppy error. -- Charlie From geffrey at netfids.com Fri Jan 30 06:32:21 2004 From: geffrey at netfids.com (Geffrey Velásquez) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:32:21 -0500 Subject: [cAos] CentOS Develpment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401A6AF5.6030005@netfids.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.infiscale.org/pipermail/caos/attachments/20040130/5a2d8fec/attachment.html From geffrey at netfids.com Fri Jan 30 07:07:34 2004 From: geffrey at netfids.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Geffrey_Vel=E1squez?=) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:07:34 -0500 Subject: [cAos] CentOS Develpment Message-ID: <401A7336.4040403@netfids.com> Sorry, I sent the last mail in blank. I'm very interested in CentOS 3 and I want to do contributions, maybe building RPMS. I'm a Linux administrator (not programmer, for now). Regards, Geffrey Velasquez From mhedemark at trueposition.com Fri Jan 30 12:45:11 2004 From: mhedemark at trueposition.com (Hedemark, Magnus) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:45:11 -0500 Subject: [cAos] CentOS Develpment Message-ID: <9E72DA54A657354DAE751492248657C9514EA0@mailhost.trueposition.com> Hey you guys know there is a mailing list for CentOS, right? That might be the better place to chime in. Magnus Hedemark Linux Network Admin TruePosition, Inc. Office 610-680-1133 FAX 610-680-1199 > -----Original Message----- > From: Geffrey Vel?squez [mailto:geffrey at netfids.com] > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 10:08 AM > To: caos at caosity.org > Subject: [cAos] CentOS Develpment > > > Sorry, I sent the last mail in blank. > > I'm very interested in CentOS 3 and I want to do contributions, maybe > building RPMS. I'm a Linux administrator (not programmer, for now). > > Regards, > Geffrey Velasquez > > _______________________________________________ > cAos mailing list > cAos at caosity.org > http://www.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/caos >